MovieChat Forums > Session 9 (2001) Discussion > ok, 3rd time watching this...Still Fckin...

ok, 3rd time watching this...Still Fcking Confused about Simon


I get that Gordon was stressed and on the verge of having a nervous breakdown.

So if you are that stressed your psyche creates an entity inside of you who is evil and makes you kill people?

UGH this fcking movie!!!

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Or, Simon is a demon who is able to possess people in their weakest moments.

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Sort of.

Don’t take “Simon” so literally - Simon doesn’t exist. "Simon" is a name that existed only for Mary Hobbes, as part of her multipersonality disorder. “Simon,” in the context of this movie, is the embodiment of Mary's broken human mind that then allows itself to become, well, evil.

Simon isn’t a demon, and Simon doesn’t exist in the world. Simon only existed for Mary.

In the movie, Gordie going nuts was the same CONCEPT of Simon – he snapped and went homicidal/ mental. That’s his version of “Simon.” He just didn’t have a name and a creepy voice for it as Mary did. Not everyone who is homicidal has fictional names for their moods.

In the language of "Session 9":

“Simon” EQUALS going nuts and homicidal
“Simon” DOES NOT EQUAL a possession
“Simon” DOES NOT EQUAL a demon/ ghost
“Simon” EQUALS the part of Mary Hobbes’ brain associated with going nuts and homicidal

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I feel like your argument is way too absolute for this film. SIMON is up for interpretation, each viewer has their own idea of what SIMON means. I think the film accomodates and encourages flexible interpretations. The film didn't speak in absolutes which means we don't need to count anything out.

Simon might be interpreted as a possession. The film doesn't need to explicity show this and turn into The Excorcist to justify this interpretation.

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"Simon might be interpreted as a possession. The film doesn't need to explicity show this and turn into The Excorcist to justify this interpretation."

Sure, it MIGHT be. It MIGHT also be interpreted that Gordie is in a mental institution and imagining all of this in his head. I get that you COULD possibly see this movie a few ways, but if you want to play the MIGHT game, what's the point in trying to tell a story?

It is cool that "Session 9" is engineered in such a way that possible connotations could exist, but as a story teller, I'd say the director/ writer created a fantastic story that's spelled out rather clearly.

So though there are interpretations that MIGHT make sense, there is one that very clearly makes sense (as outlined in my previous post).

But hey, a movie is art - if you prefer taking a different meaning from it, I ain't gonna throw popcorn. :)

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It can not be interpreted as possession unless you wan't to reinterpret an entire science of psychology, and give it some supernatural spin.

Now I understand the new generation's obsession with supernatural, ghost movies, but this is a movie about former MENTAL patient, in former MENTAL institution, and tapes of another, famous or infamous MENTAL patient suffering from DID - former MULTIPLE PERSONALITY DISORDER.

Psychopaths and agressive DID personalities are so close to true evil, that one can easily slip into the possessed theory. But it's shallow and wrong.

But the movie, in fact, just shows the dangers of severe mental illness. Especially when one is left untreated, or when patients are let loose - as clearly impiled by the whole asylum closing story.

Simon, is the agressive identity of Mary. In DID patients this agressive identity steps in to protect the original person, when it suffers severe mental and\or physical abuse. As Simon himself said ''..He scared Mary, doc...Mary fell down,doc,she fell on her doll.It cut her up,doc, it cut her up real bad.SHE NEEDED SOMEONE TO HELP HER, SO, I...INTRODUCED MYSELF...''

Other personality is Billy, and the original is Mary. What is Billy suppose to be in that ghost theory?!?!?!?!?

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No being stressed doesn't cause this. What causes this is in Gordon's case is his wife just having a baby, baby crying all hours of the night which keeps him and his wife up causing them problems in their marriage, working in a field where you work with toxic materials that can get into your system and make you sick, and trying to get his recent project done in a short amount of time causes him to as normal people would say go insane.

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[deleted]

Very sorry man.

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I think the movie leaves it open to interpretation. I can definitely see arguments for both side. One side being that Simon is a physical demon that can possess someone. And the other side being that Simon is just a metaphor for that tiny spot of evil inside everyone that can potentially come out if under enough stress.

The thing that has always made me think that Simon was more of a physical demon was when Mike first discovers the audio tapes. The tapes are inside of a box which is taped shut. He pulls out a knife and goes to cut the box open. Right when his blade punctures the tape, you hear this gasping sound of air, almost like someone is breathing. Then immediately the movie pans to Gordon who cuts himself and then immediately to Hank who gets dust in his eyes. The movie makes an obvious attempt at really sticking these two scenes in your face, and these two scenes happen right after you hear a "breath" escaping from the box that contained audio tapes of Simon.

Why else would the movie show those sequence of events if it wasn't trying to tell you that Simon is physical and was just "released" when the box was cut open.

To be honest though, I much prefer the theory that Simon is a metaphor for an evil part that can live inside anyone and that can make anyone snap and go crazy under the "right" circumstances. That is much scarier to me.

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So is your take on the movie that "Simon" is a metaphor for a little spot of evil that can potentially live inside everyone and can be brought out under the right circumstances if that person is under enough stress and pressure?

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I love this movie. I need to watch it again soon!

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I know what you mean. It's on my "short list" of movies to watch when I really want to be disturbed.

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What are the other movies on that list of yours?

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Oh, there isn't really a "list". I know there are others, though. I'm just drawing a blank at the moment. :-D

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Cali Man,

Again, you are confusing the order of things. YES, when Mike cut the box open, we did see and hear things happen, but to say that THAT was the moment Simon was released disproves your whole argument that Simon is a demon that is possessing Gordon, seeing Gordon HAD ALREADY KILLED HIS WIFE AND BABY by that point!!!

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What in the world are you talking about?!?

''agressive personality'' sais hello to the Gordon. Gordon is former DID patient, same as Mary - THAT IS THE WHOLE PURPOSE OF MARY'S CASE IN THE MOVIE. To speak about DID, but not in direct way so we would get surprised at the end.

DID patiens have agressive personality, that occasionaly overtakes them. And they don't remember actions of that other personalities. Same as Gordon.

The personality which spoke to him wasn't ''Simon'' - since Simon exists only in Mary's mind. It was his own that could be called ''Mike'' ''Abraham'' or ''Claude''.

Those of you who seem to like ghost idea.Forget BILLY!? What is he, if not 3rd DID personality - AS CLEARLY SAID BY THE MOVIE BTW>

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SPOILERS

I disagree. Just watch and pay attention(and maybe even watch the directors commentary) Not everything has to be identified when were mostly listening to peoples thoughts. I believe, like the movie says that Simon does, to a degree possess people in their weakest moments. It possessed Mary, then hank. Not in the metaphorical fashion either.

I believe Mike started to figure this all out this after hearing Mary's personal sessions in which we get to hear Simons voice through Mary which is the EXACT same voice Gordon hears later and he never heard the tapes.

They both blocked out the things the passionate crimes they commited also. This is why we get to hear the tapes and get the hole "WOW" twist at the end. It all fits and is expanded upon if you pay attention and watch the commentary. Metaphors and mental insanity do not fit alone. There was obviously other things going on like Frank walking around the next day after he was lobotomised then just disappears? And you can't say Gordon swooped in and did it because he was downstairs when the kid ran down to get the rest to investigate. And how would Gordon know how to give someone a lobotomy without killing them? No, there was definitely something supernatural a foot. Simon was trapped where Mary died.

Makes a lot more sense then just metaphors and the evil that men do. There was way too many strange coincidences for it to be that.

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I still am not certain what side I am on. The Simon is a metaphor for the "bad side" that can come out in anyone. Or the Simon is an actual demon that can possess. I did want to touch on one thing you mentioned though.

You said how would Gordon know how to give someone a lobotomy without killing them? This is clearly shown earlier in the film. All the guys are sitting around on their lunchbreak when Mike tells them how the hospital used to perform lobotomies. He goes so far as to describe exactly how lobotomies are performed and exactly what type of tool is used, even showing them the tool.

When he finishes talking, all the guys are laughing or at least it seems they are amused. But you can see Gordon is staring at Mike and listening very intently and in a very deep thought. Maybe storing this information for later? It is also not crazy to think Gordon could have read up on lobotomies more after that.

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Another part that supports this is when the kid walks by Mike and the voice says "Put on your mask, Princess." He (and we at first) think that it is Mike that said it, but then when the kid says "I'm not your princess," Mike is confused and says "What?"

Later Mike is listing the names of the personalities and Princess=innocence, which could also be said of the kid.

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It was Mike who said that to Jeff. Mike had been listening to the tapes and looking at the docs pertaining to Mary Hobbs. He has totally become obsessed with it. Its on his mind enough that he sneaks down to listen whenever given the opportunity, he makes excuses about needing to fix the generator, etc., to stay after work or during lunch break. He is so obsessed with this that he has Princess on his brain, and it slips out without him even realizing it. Now, can you interpret that Mike, like Gordon, was kinda coming under the control of whatever bad vibe the creepy hospital oozed. Yeah, I think that was the plot point of the movie.

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