MovieChat Forums > Shallow Hal (2001) Discussion > I hate this movie with such a passion...

I hate this movie with such a passion...


...that it gives me energy, damnit!

And what I hate most about it is that it makes people blurt out statements like "This is BS. People instinctively search for an attractive mate. This is not shallow, it's human nature."

I get that! I really do! And you are all 100% right - with one exception! Statements like that imply that beauty is a set standard - and trust me, it is definately NOT!
There's a reason the phrase 'beauty is in the eyes of the beholder' exist.

People might instinctively search for beauty, but no one can dictate what that is, except the one searching.

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Your post is laughable. This movie, a slapstick comedy no less, has managed to go over your head. Why don't people understand this! The movie is promoting the idea that one should look at inner beauty rather than outer beauty!!!

Let me ask you a question, honestly, did you even watch the whole movie?!

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Yes, I have seen the whole movie.
But no, while the movie is promoting the inner beauty thing, what it is first and foremostly promoting is that certain people are ugly simply because of how they look (and that it takes hypnotherapy to make others see that they are really nice people).

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Re ..."'beauty is in the eyes of the beholder'":
So what percentage of people do you think find Rosemary attractive?

Gwyneth Paltrow said that when she wore the fat-suit around in public, she felt invisible, as no one seemed to be giving her a second look--probably quite different than her usual experience.

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The story is king.

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So what percentage of people do you think find Rosemary attractive?


Doesn't matter.
The movie is promoting the idea that she is ugly simply because of how she looks, THAT is what I don't like. Her "percentage of approval" has no meaning here, because I guarantee you that it will NOT read zero.

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Re: "The movie is promoting the idea that she is ugly simply because of how she looks, THAT is what I don't like."

But now you seem to be stating that she looks ugly. So she's not "beauteous" to you?
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The story is king.

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I'm not stating that, the movie is.
In the trailer for 'Shallow Hal' it says that Hal gets hypnotized to see the inner beauty in people, even in those without "outer" beauty.

To answer your question, yes, I do find Rosemary beautiful.
And no, that's not bs.


-If made by George Lucas, this would be re-released 3 times - and by now be mostly cgi.

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I said "beauteous" not "beautiful".

____________________
The story is king.

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Beauteous: adjective, Chiefly Literary.
1. Beautiful.

Now, coitus off, smartypants!

-If made by George Lucas, this would be re-released 3 times - and by now be mostly cgi.

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Adj. 1. beauteous - (poetic )beautiful, especially to the sight

I meant this distinction. That's why people use a different word than beautiful--which could mean she smells beautiful, or has a beautiful mind.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/beauteous

So, in that vein, I repeat, you don't seem to think she has visual beauty, but some other kind.

____________________
The story is king.

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Ok, so that's something new I just learned. Good.

Now, where do you get that from?
I mean this as a genuine question. Where in my original - or subsequent - text do you pick up any sense that I find her not visually beautiful?
Because in any and all senses I actually find Rosemary very physically appealing. Hot, even!
...Or beauteous, then. :)

-If made by George Lucas, this would be re-released 3 times - and by now be mostly cgi.

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Where did I get that from? From this:
"The movie is promoting the idea that she is ugly simply because of how she looks, THAT is what I don't like."


____________________
The story is king.

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I don't get you now... Are you being intentionally confusing, or do you really not understand what I wrote.

I feel that the movie (that would be the movie 'Shallow Hal') is making a case stating that certain people - in this specific case, Rosemary - are ugly based solely on their appearance.
In short, I feel that the movie 'Shallow Hal' is telling us, the viewers, that Rosemary is ugly because of how she looks.
I do not like this view, because I do not think Rosemary is ugly.

Now, tell me again; how in the hell could you twist that around 180 degrees and get the opposite result?.

-If made by George Lucas, this would be re-released 3 times - and by now be mostly cgi.

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You're saying that the movie is measuring her beauty according to her looks, and you're not. So you're finding her "beautiful" by something other than her looks.

____________________
The story is king.

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I'm saying the movie is "calling" her ugly because of how she looks.
Measuring beauty by looks is almost inevitable - calling someone outright ugly is quite another.

Obviously we're not gonna see eye to eye on this, for some reason.
Can we just say we tied and call this quits now?

-If made by George Lucas, this would be re-released 3 times - and by now be mostly cgi.

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Like it or not, there is an objective standard of female beauty. A man will never mistake a 1 on the beauty scale for a 9, or vice versa.

Here is a very interesting chart of how men view female beauty. You will sadly note that fat girls like Rosemary in this film are rated very, very low on the list.

https://heartiste.wordpress.com/2014/08/09/beauty-is-objective-fair-skinned-and-white-ish/

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The flippin' movie is named Shallow Hal, and implies that it is Hal who is shallow and superficial, likely due to his traumatic childhood experience and lack of maturity...it doesn't imply that everybody is like this.



Whose idea was it for the word "Lisp" to have an "S" in it?

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your statement is refuted by the mere fact that only a crazy gay would say that gwynith parltro is not beautiful and that fat version is not ugly.

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Again, according to YOU.
Probably according to a lot of people as well.
But not, I repeat NOT according to everybody in the whole world!
You cannot sit there and dictate what everybody else thinks and feels, that is just not realistic.
Thin Gwyneth Palthrow is beautiful, yes.
Fat Gwyneth Palthrow is also beautiful.
Which of these a "third person" prefers is individual.

Do you get that?
Or do you still claim to know everybody in the whole world, and can say that you speak for all of them collectively?

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Well, I'm sure that you could find someone in this very big world who prefers the taste of dog crap to that of chocolate, but that is not the norm. We generally make decisions based on the 99.9%, not the .01%.

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So... According to your reply slenderly built people and fat people compares like chocolate and dog crap.
Nice. You must be a hoot at parties. Or on the bus. Or in the mall.
Do you wear protective clothing when you leave the house to keep from getting dog crap on yourself just in case you happen to stand to close to a fat person?

-If made by George Lucas, this would be re-released 3 times - and by now be mostly cgi.

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Don't get personal about it....I'm simply saying that if 99.9% of the public believes one thing and .1% believes something different, then generally the 99.9% are right (maybe 99.9% of the time) and the .1% are wrong.

Face it: there is an objective standard of female beauty just as there is an objective standard of height or an objective standard of taste in foods. We don't build doors for 8-and-a-half foot people because, while there may be a few people that tall every century, it's just not necessary for the vast majority of humans. We build doors for the average person of up to 7 feet in height.

McDonald's knows that there are folks who prefer very spicy foods but they don't put Tabasco sauce in their grilled cheeseburgers to accommodate them. They make their cheeseburgers to please the pallets of the 99% of the masses who don't like red-hot, spicy food.

You may see the thin Gwyneth Paltrow on the cover of a magazine or in a movie but you would never see the fat version (other than in Shallow Hal, and that was to illustrate a point). How many Miss America contestants or Ford models or cover girls on Cosmo magazine weigh over 200 pounds, much less 300 pounds? I had to laugh when Sports Illustrated relentlessly touted the "plus sized" model Ashley Graham who appeared in their 2015 swimsuit issue, because she turned out to be not very fat at all, and certainly nowhere near the weight of Rosemary in Shallow Hal.

Sure, there are some guys who like big, big women, but it's a very small minority. The cultural norm is that thin is beautiful but bloat is not.

To believe something different is in the nature of a religious belief, such as the medieval Catholic papal doctrine which held that the sun revolved around the earth. These beliefs give worshipers the false hope that we are still the center of the universe, yet also bring in their wake eventual disappointment. Many, many different cultures enjoy their false ideas because it brings them hope and makes them feel better (for example, Islamic suicide bombers apparently look forward to 72 virgins in heaven), but that does not mean that such comforting beliefs are true.

There is a name for this logical fallacy: Argumentum ad consequentiam. This is an argument which concludes that a hypothesis or a belief is either true or false based on whether the premise leads to desirable or undesirable consequences. It's an appeal to emotion and is a fallacy, since the desirability of an argument does not make it true. I too would prefer to live in a world where Rosemary was as equally as desirable as Gwyneth, but that's not the world we inhabit.

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You are correct that beauty is subjective but percentage wise many people will agree on who is attractive and who isn't. I'm sure there are people who find young, curvy, symmetrical bikini models unattractive and I'm sure there are people out there who find really obese people with blotchy skin attractive but overall, the majority of people agree on who is really attractive and who isn't.

There is a reason certain men/women are put on the covers of magazines, the majority of people find them attractive.....not just a fringe percentage.


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Not only is conventional beauty not a fringe phenomenon, but there does not seem to be a visible market for chubby-chaser girlie mags.

You'd think that with the dearth of such fare, some single publisher could corner that market. There are magazines for people who fly private planes, for aficionados of expensive watches, mountain climbers, chess enthusiasts, spelunkers--the list goes on.

I don't know of any plus size playmate periodicals, or chunky-hunk versions for fems. That says people talk about eye-of-the-beholder, but the assumed group of beholders for alternative beauty don't seem to be putting their money down for it.

____________________
The story is king.

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But if looks DONT define 'beauty' then what DOES? You could say 'oh, gosh, inner beauty', but that doesn't easily translate to cinema. And yes, standards of beauty are subjective, but they are some physical qualities that MANY or MOST people prefer, if not everyone. For example, most men, given the choice between a date with Gwyneth Paltrow and a morbidly obese woman, would go for Gwyneth. And just so I am not sounding gender-biased, wouldn't most women opt for a date with Brad Pitt over one with a slovenly unshaven guy with a beer gut?

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