MovieChat Forums > Star Trek: Nemesis (2002) Discussion > This was the worst possible Send Off Mov...

This was the worst possible Send Off Movie ever.

posted 11 years ago by bond_98
23 replies | jump to latest

If this was meant to be the Next Generation last great adventure and sends off the TNG Crew. It was really horrible. I mean compare this to Star Trek 6 and its farewell to the original crew. It had a great story with great character moments and loving send off to the original crew. In this one its like "Hell will just ripoff Wrath of Khan" instead doing something original. When Data dies in this movie. Its like "Well Data Dead, Back to work people." When Spock Died in Wrath of Kahn it affected everybody. You would think that seeing how close Geordi & Data were in the Series. You figure he would be in tears. But in this its like "It's no sweat off my nose he's dead". You would think that consider how good the TNG was. They want to go out on a high note.

[–] Porpoise01 11 years ago

it was big. it was epic. but for some reason, it just didn't work.

hard to say why, but here's a few thoughts...
They find another Data. haven't we been he before?
They tried to "manufacture" a Nemesis for Picard. you can't manufacture that. You can't have a "Nemesis" unless they have a history
potentially great battle... Intercut with Rikers fistfight in the lower levels.

Anyone else have any other CONCRETE ideas about why a storyline with such potential was so... Flat?

"After years of fighting with reality, I am pleased to say that I have finally won out over it."

[–] Foxbarking 11 years ago

I have to say you are right on about everything that you mentioned. They must have thought they could rip some elements from "Wrath of Khan" and try to incorporate them into a new movie, but failed at making it watchable. Shinzon was just a weak character and his reason for existence was weak. His "cure" was idiotic and it's just so amusing how these ultimate weapons appear out of nowhere.

Some people have said the space battle was great, but I guess they have short memories. It was established that in "First Contact" the Enterprise E has the firepower to destroy a Borg cube, but the Romulans could build a ship that the Enterprise barely stands any chance with. While it might be argued that the Enterprise E had an advantage over the Borg cube because Picard had so much inside knowledge of the Borg, that point is invalidated by the fact that the Borg knew of Picard's knowledge and would have adapted. It's just not believable that the Romulans could construct this ship out of nowhere that the strongest Federation ship barely stood a chance against.

There's not enough I can say about how stupid and pointless Data's death was. All I can say is, this is by far the worst Star Trek movie ever made. They should edit in a couple of scenes with Fatty Arbuckle and claim it was a parody.

[–] Porpoise01 11 years ago

Left out Data's death. It was nothing at all like Spock's -- a necessary, logical way to save all his shipmates, vs. a contrived way to save... Just the Captain, who shouldn't really have been there... As has been said, an attempt to duplicate an element from from Kahn... And even then, they throw in a more obvious cheat to resurrect the character.

Roger Ebertsays it's not what the film is about, but HOW it's about it. This is the best proof I can think of. They escape in a shuttle by flying THROUGH the enemy ship! Amajor space battle! Romulans ally with the Federation! The Enterprise's most desperate battle, the front of the bridge is blasted away, in desperation they RAM the other ship, yet... At the end... Nobody cares.

It sounds good on paper. Every now and then I revisit itt, and it seems it must be several subtle mistakes that leave us just not giving a damn.

Let's start with the notion that Picard has a nemesis he doesn't even know exist. What makes them natural enemies? Why, because he's a clone.

Who wrote this, robots?

If they wanted a final, climactic battle, worthy of sacrifices, then, just off the top of my head...

An elite Borg Strike Team -- they've already undercut the hive idea with a queen, so what the hell... The Borg go for broke, send in their very best, they will eitherdefeat the Federation, or the Federation will end the threat forever. Recognizing a common enemy, the Romulans AND the Klingons join in...

And oh yeah... If you wants tearjerker loss, go for broke -- kill Riker and leave Troi a widow.

Maybe it was a lack of imagination.Maybe it was a lack of guts. but we ALREADY had a spare Data before they killed the one we knew... How cowardly is that?

"After years of fighting with reality, I am pleased to say that I have finally won out over it."

[–] Bane2016 11 years ago

Let's start with the notion that Picard has a nemesis he doesn't even know exist. What makes them natural enemies? Why, because he's a clone.

Because Shinzon is a clone of Picard, created with a great purpose, a purpose that never came. So he was left to die.
He still wants to fulful his purpose and bring meaning to his life. He also needs to capture Picard and complete a transfusion to extend his short life span.

Picard doesn't want them to be enemies.

An elite Borg Strike Team -- they've already undercut the hive idea with a queen, so what the hell... The Borg go for broke, send in their very best, they will eitherdefeat the Federation, or the Federation will end the threat forever. Recognizing a common enemy, the Romulans AND the Klingons join in...

Awful idea. A rehash of First Contact with more explosions? No, thanks.

And oh yeah... If you wants tearjerker loss, go for broke -- kill Riker and leave Troi a widow.

Why? At least in Data's death, he was endevouring to be more than he is. To be human. By sacrificing himself. What'd be the point in your idea? To try and make it as upsetting as possible, for no reason?

Dude. No.

[–] mdelvecchio 11 years ago

as noted, Shinzon isn't Picard's nemesis - Picard is his. for reasons stated...being his shadow, understudy, etc..

[–] bjlevine 11 years ago

I don't think that this was supposed to be the absolute end for TNG films. Sure people were less than enthusiastic about...err...what was the name of the previous movie? Anyhoo, The Final Frontier didn't do so well, and they still made VI as a final film for TOS crew.

But I really think that they stepped back and said "TWOK was a popular movie. So why don't we use that formula?" So we get a big baddie out for revenge(?) with a super weapon that can destroy the ship and a major character has to sacrifice himself to save the ship.

Unfortunately, that's where everything went wrong. There is no real relationship between Picard and Shinzon, nor any motivation for Shinzon to want to kill Picard. So in the end, its yet another TNG action movie, with fairly pointless action scenes (who the heck is Riker fighting and why?).

Yeah they kill off Data, and send Riker off on his own ship (finally!). But I can almost guarantee you that if this movie had made TUC kind of money, they would likely have done another film, maybe even with B4 uploading all of Data's...data, and becoming Data-A. And Riker's ship would have been involved. Alas, it lost money, and it was time to move on.

"Live long and suck it, Zachary Quinto!"

[–] monstermayhem32 11 years ago

I think it would have been great to see the Titan ship and seeing how shinzons actions changed the romulan empire.

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[–] bartcartman 11 years ago

Is it possible Jonathan Frakes wanted to be behind the camera directing instead of starring in another long ST TV series?

[–] mdelvecchio 11 years ago

shoved down your throat? we'e you forced to watch this?

or were you expecting to be consulted on the storyline first, perhaps asked to vote on it?

[–] darthmetalhead1 11 years ago

It's not the send off everyone wanted but still blows Enterprise finale out of the water...of course any finale is better than the way they filmed the last Enterprise

[–] Housefan2 11 years ago

The elements for a great movie are present but the execution was waaaaay off.

First, I think they were trying to draw parallels between STUC. In UC, Kirk's actions help bring about a sort of peace with the Klingon Empire. In this, Picard's actions help the Federation draw closer to a sort of peace with the Romulans. The premise is interesting but execution is everything.

First, the idea of Picard having a clone works. They should have had Patrick Stewart play a duel role as opposed to getting Tom Hardy. Hardy looks nothing like a young Patrick Stewart and Picard used to have hair. I think there would have been more of an "oh *beep* moment if Shinzon had stepped out of the shadows and *BAM* he's Patrick Stewart.

Second, retarded Data (B-4) being introduced. When I first saw B-4, I'd hoped he would reveal himself to be Lore. He and Shinzon were working together to destroy the Enterprise and conquer the Federation.

B-4 was included for one reason: to have him be a replacement for Data after Data died. I was actually insulted by this. I get that the director wasn't a Star Trek fan but B-4 will never replace Data.

Lizzie

To love another person is to see the face of God! - Les Miserables

[–] coffeefilter 11 years ago

I believe I read somewhere (no link sorry) that Brent Spiner no longer wanted to portray data in any later films and B-4 was a way of killing him without writing him out completely.

I liked Tom Hardy in this, I think he did a good job of mimicking the older Picards inflections.

As for the hair thing I assumed he (Shinzon) shaved it deliberately to emphasise to Picard how alike they were despite the age difference - remember they planned to kill Picard from the start to save his life. Thats just my opinion though.

Caprica/SGU/Firefly/Farscape/TSCC - Sometimes I wonder why I bother

[–] mdelvecchio 11 years ago

agreed on hair -- Picard's DNA has him balding, at what age we don't know. she Shiznon just shaves it all off. see this every day.

[–] bartcartman 11 years ago

The last TNG movie was good, until Data's death. The director never understood how Data had become so human over the years. The crew just gave a cheers with drink, and talked about how Data made them laugh. That was insulting to a character that was just as important as Spock.

If you're going to combine "Star Trek VI", and "Star Trek II", have the empty casket funeral for Data!!!

Of course B4 had to show some signs of learning in case another TNG had another movie to make. NO, you killed Data (Spock) with no real out for bringing the character back to life unlike ST II, and III.

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[–] bartcartman 11 years ago

At least they ripped off the better movie (WoK), properly. Yet for some reason I didn't have tears in my eyes when I saw JJ Abrahms' Kirk die. It's still a great movie with a great new re-boot. I guess this is what the new Star Wars is going to be....

I just bought the original ten movies on blu-ray. Many may mock Shatner for overacting ("KHAAAAAN"), yet ever since I saw WoK on Showtime in 1983, I still tear up when Spock dies. Even though I now know he will live on, it's Shatner's best acting performance. William Shatner has been mocked many times, but the end of "The Wrath of Khan" is genuine acting.

I think the reason is the director didn't tell Shatner that Spock could live after that movie,so Shatner put true emotion into saying goodbye to Leonard Nemoy, as a friend.

[–] bjlevine 11 years ago

Kirk's eulogy for Spock in TWOK is a really moving scene, and well done.

When Spock screamed "KHAAANNN!!" in Into Darkness, I almost hurt myself my eyes rolled so far back in my head.

"Live long and suck it, Zachary Quinto!"

[–] bartcartman 11 years ago

Data's death was complete......

If Data was the Spock to The Next Generation, at least send off an empty photon torpedo, to honor his death in battle. They just drank to remember him. As a fan of both TOS TNG, that really pissed me off!!!!

Everytime I see the ending of WoK, I shed a tear, BS, I still cry. I can't help it. When Data dies, life goes on. Data was a computer.

[–] 11 years ago

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[–] bartcartman 11 years ago

You have solved why the powers that be didn't combine DS9, Voyager, and the 2002 version of Picard's Enterprise. The only link we get is Captain Janeway is now an Admiral speaking to Picard on The Enterprise ("Nemesis").

The way DS9 ended, I always wondered if the writers really wanted to have Sisko as a mental patient stuck in New York City's Bellvue hospital writing great science fiction on the walls of his room during the 1950's-1960's.

Think about it, DS9 was it's own entity. Remember when Sisko re-lived the "Tribbles" episode from TOS? That would be his dream after watching Star Trek in a mental hospital. It's all in his head.

Though the Ferengi were on TNG, they weren't on Voyager. The references to 20th Century American life; Baseball, and 1950/60's Las Vegas lounge singers. Bashir's fascination with James Bond spy fantasies.

Of all the post Kirk/Spock/Bones/Scotty versions of Star Trek, DS9 was the smartest...until Scott Bakula with "Enterprise".