MovieChat Forums > Star Trek: Nemesis (2002) Discussion > Data DID NOT have to die...

Data DID NOT have to die...

posted 11 years ago by kuma_lacu
15 replies | jump to latest

In all fairness, it was a pretty good movie if you can excuse the death of Data. Personally speaking, if you think about it logically, he didn't have to die like he did. The transporter went off line on the Enterprise and they couldn't beam him back. First of all, Picard made a huge mistake because he allowed this to be personal. That weapon would have killed everyone on the ship and then Earth and all he was willing to throw at them in order to stop Shinzon was ONE MAN? Earlier in the film they even commented on the prowess of the Reman shock troops, so how long do you think he would have lasted if that hadn't been scripted? Two minutes? (Even if the Reman wern't great fighters and the Romulans just threw them into the ring first -to save Romulan lives- that's still hundreds against one man!)

Now on to my point. Why didn't Data just go down to the shuttle bay and then fly over to the Scimitar? They had no weapons, no shields, nothing. He could have beamed Picard on-board and then locked on to the bridge and opened fire. Even if the shuttle didn't have enough fire power to penetrate the hull, I bet had they used the shuttle and beamed back to the Enterprise and then set it to collide with the bridge that would have done it too. Either way, they had the time and energy to fix that without causing Data's death. I understand that they wanted to signify the end of TNG, but do it differently! DS9 was over, it would have made more sense if Worf had died... At least its an honorable death. Shinzon, a little weakling human, against Worf? My money is on Worf taking him down in under 30 seconds. Picard has proven time and again that he's not the best fighter. Just saying.

DATA DIDN'T HAVE TO DIE! Yes they wanted the end to have resonance, they wanted hard feelings in order to evoke emotion in the audience, but still...

R E S I S T A N C E IS F U T I L E !

R E S I S T A N C E IS F U T I L E !

[–] gothor 11 years ago

I totally agree. Data's death was just completely bungled.

Of course, Data did have to die, because the actor wanted out. I have no problem with that. But the execution was so horribly flawed, it's borderline parody.

It raises so many questions. Firstly: What? Data died? Because it's out of nowhere. There's no buildup leading to his sacrifice (one of the things that made Spock's death such a tear-jerker). It's sudden and random and so poorly edited, you have to wonder what's going on. And that's where you get into trouble, because it just doesn't hold up under scrutiny.

You're right, he could have taken a shuttle. Or, he could have taken two Emergency Transport Units. They specify each unit can only transport one person, not that there's only one prototype. And even if there was one -- which they never said -- why couldn't another be replicated?

And Data didn't need to personally blow up the Thalaron generator. He could have overloaded a phaser, or brought along photon grenades.

And while we're at it, since when is detonating a source of deadly radiation a good idea? How would that save the Enterprise?

The whole thing is dumb. All of it.

People trash the "mindless action" of Star Trek (2009) reboot, but compare Data's death to George Kirk's sacrifice in the opening scene. That scene made perfect scene. It was handled in a logical, dramatic and entertaining fashion. It didn't leave me scratching my head, wondering what the heck I just saw. Because of that, I able to connect with the characters and share in their grief. It had much more of an impact on me, even though George Kirk was foreign to me, and Data was my favorite character from TNG.

I'd say this is the worst possible way to handle the death of a beloved character, but I know for a fact that it could have been worse.

They could have dropped a bridge on him.

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[–] JediColt 11 years ago

This is dead on. IF nothing else, Data could have just flipped the transporter to Picard like a quarter. "Here you go Capn, see you in a minute."

Instead it was so obviously a contrived and forced movie death that made no sense. You're right that the deaths of previously unknown characters in the new movies are more moving and emotional than this.

I have no problem with killing off characters. I do have a problem when its done poorly.

Creating Beta Data to lessen the blow was cheap and pointless, then making the scene where Data sacrifices himself a pointless scene made it even worse.

I wasn't sad when Data died, not at all, because it wasn't emotional.

[–] TheSolarSailor 11 years ago

Of course, Data did have to die, because the actor wanted out. I have no problem with that. But the execution was so horribly flawed, it's borderline parody.

But even that doesn't make sense. No one is forcing Brent Spiner to play Data again if he doesn't want to, so no need to kill Data. And even then, if the death was written solely because Spiner wanted out, then why show us signs that B4 is beginning to become Data thanks to the download thing Data did for him earlier in the film?

- - - - - - -
Whose idea was it for the word "Lisp" to have an "S" in it?

[–] gothor 11 years ago

But even that doesn't make sense. No one is forcing Brent Spiner to play Data again if he doesn't want to, so no need to kill Data. And even then, if the death was written solely because Spiner wanted out, then why show us signs that B4 is beginning to become Data thanks to the download thing Data did for him earlier in the film?

Yeah, good point. I guess I should have said: Data had to die, because Spiner wanted out, and his buddy was writing a really bad remake of Wrath of Khan!

But of course, there's B-4 at the end, robbing said death of its emotional core. It's like if by the end of Star Trek Into Darkness, Kirk wasn't just brought back, he came back as a dimwitted amnesiac.

And believe it or not, all that B-4 humming to himself business at the end stuff was ripped directly from a (similarly infuriating) episode of an episode of Voyager! They pulled the same trick with the Holodoc, right down to his amnesiac backup copy singing quietly to himself right before the credits rolled, in a callback that's supposed to show he retained some of his memories/personality.

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[–] tlw013-1 10 years ago

I think we can all agree the death was contrived and poorly executed. Was it necessary? No. This was intended to be the last TNG film, so no need to kill a character portrayed by an aging actor, regardless of B-4's presence.

The only actual purpose the death would have served would've been one of theme, if all the cut scenes were restored. We walk away with only Picard and LaForge left on the Enterprise, the rest of the crew moving on to other assignments or dead.

[–] fishcorn 10 years ago

The most annoying thing about the final sequence with Data and Picard is that all of the other characters were apparently just standing around on the bridge waiting for something to happen, doing nothing. After the Reman ship explodes it shows Geordi and and Troi witnessing the explosion because they were just standing there gaping at the screen, apparently. Find some way to help out Data and the captain somehow, holy *beep* Do something.

[–] Protozoid 10 years ago

I think Picard should have died, and Shinzon should have been spared. It's the only way the movie's thesis about overcoming your genetic "programming" could be seen as optimistic: if Picard had sacrificed himself and Shinzon had joined Starfleet. Also: serious opportunity for a reboot, there, which they totally missed. Keep Data, kill Picard, reboot the TNG movies with Shinzon as the new Picard.

[–] kuma_lacu 10 years ago

Eh... Its an idea, just not one I would endorse. First and foremost, I heavily dislike the rebooted crap Abrams is making. Now that hes working on the new wars movies, I'm hoping the new talent can create a truly good Star Trek movie the next time around. While I am more a fan of TNG to Enterprise, I don't want Star Trek to disappear forever and given enough time, it will. However killing Picard wouldn't have done anything... First off, Patrick Stewart is an awesome guy... Secondly, a reboot of Picard without Data would be like casting one 'Friend' from the cast of Friends and trying to make it work. It cant and the show Joey proved that. You lose the formula altogether. You could kill off Riker, Troi, Crusher, or even Geordi and it wouldn't have mattered. Although I do like Geordi (because of his friendship with Data and The Reading Rainbow show) but even then, no big deal. Sorry other TNG actors, but Spiner and Picard WERE the TNG any which way you spin it.

You can revamp TOS because the ground work is there.. If that makes sense, considering TOS was a western set to space -lots of adventure and shoot 'em up action with some heart. Sadly, the new movies don't have the same heart the old stuff did. However, the acting and effects were so bad (even for the 60's) that its not hard to shine when compared. Like every other bland POS scifi movie hollywood is spewing out, its nothing but lots of CG and sex appeal and little else. I mean what was the point of Carol Marcus getting half nekked in the one movie? Or Spock and Uhura fighting about their love life in the shuttle during a dangerous mission? Nimoy is a trader for selling out Trek to Abrams, but he will ALWAYS BE SPOCK hollywood! I say stop pretending to be something you're not and make some new Trek! Its been 9 years since Trek left TV and 12 since the last TNG movie. Now is the time for a new show.. Possibly based loosely on the Star Trek Online time frame of 2409. That's what I want to see -new Federation, Klingon, Romulan characters. Instead of just one crew, one ship, let see multiple places/people trying to live through stuff etc. DS9 did that very well and it would work again.

WOW that was lengthy.. What do you guys think? By the way, old skool Trekkies don't bite my friggin' head off because I'm not down with TOS. I started in 1993 with TNG and while I liked their movies, I just cant get beyond the corniness of it. Sorry.

R E S I S T A N C E IS F U T I L E !

[–] toldyousew 10 years ago

kuma_lacu stated:

Nimoy is a >>> trader <<< for selling out Trek to Abrams, but he will
ALWAYS BE SPOCK hollywood!

The word is spelled "traitor."

[–] kuma_lacu 10 years ago

I was typing fast and sometimes I make errors, grammar nazi... Just because I misspelled a word doesn't detract from my point/opinion. Gene would be pissed at Nimoy if he were still alive.

R E S I S T A N C E IS F U T I L E !

[–] lorddeseiz 10 years ago

Only one flaw in there.
Not untill they boarded the scimitar they knew where the heart of the superweapon was located.

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[–] kuma_lacu 10 years ago

Nope, nope. When Picard was kidnapped and they beamed Data aboard thinking he was B4, Data had plenty of time to look the ship over. They knew that weapon was super dangerous, so after Data checked out the ships layout what do you think the next thing he would study would be? How about the giant doomsday generator located off the bridge? Um, yeah. No matter what, DATA DID NOT HAVE TO DIE! Hell kill off Riker or Crusher... No big deal there. Just saying.

R E S I S T A N C E IS F U T I L E !

[–] lorddeseiz 10 years ago

Wrong again, there wasnt time for that. It was a rescue mission, and then they still didnt know how where and what exactly, they just detected a faint thalaron particle.
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http://www.imdb.com/list/4zXrE3AAzT4/

[–] llienomit 10 years ago

Just watched this again last night, it's been awhile. Not as bad as I recall
..but to top it off. In the scene following Data's splosion when the TNG group is having their wine & moment of remembrance. It appears Jordi is smiling/laughing at the onset of the scene. Yikes!

---Listen, ..do you smell something?---

[–] ManuelManipulation 9 years ago

Relax everyone, Data survives in B4 and eventually becomes Captain of The Enterprise.