What would she have done then? She would have not been able to put the key on him. Also how did she put the key on him? Was she like here take this key???!!!This movie was horrible. The British police and forensic experets will find out that the lock was not actually picked. Horrible with nothing to tie the loose ends together.
shareAgreed, there is no way that she would really get away with what she had done once all the evidence was gathered ...
But how the key got on him is very simple. She killed him and then planted the key on his body.
In the film, they show in the flashback that Liz slipped the key into the pocket of Martyn's coat before pushing him off the bridge. So the OP'd point was: how would she be able to do that if Martyn did not seek her out at her home in the first place?
sharemaybe she suspected he would come looking for her once the police let him go, so she had already thought of luring him out to that bridge when he inevitably showed up.
shareThat's just how it happened to end up, because Martyn did come to her house. If he hadn't, maybe she would have found some other way to implicate him, or maybe the story would have had a completely different ending. She was clearly knocked off her rocker by the events, so there's no sense in expecting HER to make sense.
shareshe seemed knocked off her rocker long before the events, to me. she had an unhealthy obsession with mike, and she was ultimately willing to sacrifice other people to get what she wanted.
sharePeople died along the way, but that's different from saying that she was willing to sacrifice other people. That was not obviously her original plan or intent. Once it happened, she covered up and behaved crazily perhaps partly on purpose although not necessarily ALL on purpose. But that's different too than planning "all I have to do is get these guys out there and kill them, then my true love will love me back... Oh, and my true love has to die too, once we have sex, so he can never cheat on me later."
sharei'm not saying she set out to murder people. i'm saying she was already crazy before she went into the hole.
she literally held everyone captive, just so she could get close to mike. that's not something a sane person would do, imo. she was even willing to let it go on to the point that they were running out of food and water, which is really insane.
i found it particularly creepy when she was babbling on about making progress with mike, totally unconcerned that frankie was violently ill. what's worse is that she had the capability to let her out to get medical help, but instead, she sat by and let her suffer and deteriorate. she put her friend's health in jeopardy, just so she could stay down there longer with mike. that's why i say she was willing to sacrifice people to get what she wanted.
at the end, it didn't even seem like she felt any real guilt. she seemed to believe her actions were justified b/c in her mind, her needs and wants were more important than anything else. i got the impression that she moreorless just viewed her friends' deaths as collateral damage. overall, she struck me as obsessive, narcissistic and manipulative.
At the end, no, she had no empathy for others. But she didn't start out that way, and she didn't plan in advance to kill the others just to get to Mike. Her level of justification increased rapidly once she was in Mike's vicinity and felt the need to "make" him love her. But again, that happened AFTER she was in the hole with him. If you had found her at the school beforehand, given her a gun and said "you can have Mike, just kill your two best friends" do you think she would have done it THEN? I don't. And that, it seems, is the difference.
sharei don't agree that the hole/vicinity to mike made her become crazy. i think she was always that way. i think she was already so obsessed with mike that she would've taken any opportunity to get close to him and narcissistic enough to believe that getting what she wanted was worth endangering others if it came down to that.
shareSo then why did she wait until after hearing that Mike was "single again" before doing anything? By your logic, she would have already gone out and killed his current girlfriend Amber the supermodel in order to have him. But no. She was obsessed the way teenage girls often are, but it was the proximity and isolation of The Hole plus how he was going after the OTHER girl, her best friend, that pushed her over the edge.
sharethat's not quite what i meant. what i was suggesting is that she didn't mind if a life happened to be lost in her attempt to get him. that's not really the same as setting out with an actual goal to kill people, but it's still crazy.
anyhow, i suppose we will just have to agree to disagree for now b/c i am starting to get super sleepy, lol. have a nice night (or day, whatever time you're on).
The real difference is if you think if you'd gone up to Liz before everything happened, and said "so you want Mike, is it okay if your best friends die along the way, in fact you kill one of them?" if you think she would have answered yes or no, BEFORE EVERYTHING HAPPENED. If you think she would have answered "no" then you agree with me. She was obsessed, but didn't become dangerously so until events already started to unravel, starting out with a death that wasn't directly her own fault the way Martyn's was: Frankie.
And if you think she would have answered "yes" right up front, then I think you need to explain why she didn't just go out and kill Mike's supermodel girlfriend right away, instead of waiting for them to split up. Killing a stranger would have had to be easier even for her, than killing her best friends.
In the meantime, good night.
like i said, i think she was narcissistic enough to believe that risking lives was worth getting what she wanted. i'm not even saying risking lives was part of her initial plan...just that she was always crazy and capable of going that far. the cave presented the right situation for her true nature to fully manifest, and we saw just how far she was willing to go to get what she wanted.
as for killing mike's gf, that would not automatically guarantee that she could have him. she was crazy, not stupid. however, if it was a situation where she believed he wanted to be with her, and the gf was the one thing standing in the way, then i think she would do whatever she had to do to get her out of the pic. i don't know that murder would be the first thing that she would try, but i wouldn't put it past her to go that route if she deemed it necessary. i also think she may only go that route if she believed she could get away with it. again, she was crazy, not stupid.
ok, now i really should be going to bed, lol. if you reply, i'll try to remember to check back and respond tomorrow. :)
I don't think she would have said - or even believed in her own head - beforehand, that it was okay for anyone else to die either, for her to get Mike. The setting - The Hole - is what made it possible for her to take that step, along with seeing her dream boy hitting on her best girlfriend. Without that, or if he had never broken up with the supermodel, she would have just gone on obsessing about him, at least until she hopefully grew out of it as teen girls usually do.
sharei suppose we just perceived her initial mental state differently. to me, she was already unstable before she entered the hole. i never viewed her as a normal teenage girl with a typical crush. she seemed abnormally obsessed with mike from the get-go to me. i think what held her back from acting on it before was believing she didn't have a shot at him. i think him breaking up with his gf was the catalyst in changing that belief, and it set her in motion to act on her unhealthy obsession. i think that once she got it in her head that she actually had a chance with him, nothing was going to stop her. i think she was willing to go to extremes if she couldn't easily get him to fall for her. i think that's why she decided to lock them in when her initial plan didn't seem to be working. i didn't see it as her just going crazy with jealousy over him showing interest in frankie. overall, i didn't see the hole as a situation that just got out of control and escalated. i actually think she was fairly in control the whole time. she was focused on one thing and she manipulated the situation to get it. i think she would've behaved the same way in any situation (hole or something else) and would've done something extreme if she felt it was necessary.
shareYou get all that from "I don't just want him. I REALLY want him!"
shareWhere did you get that? I was explaining my perception of the character based on everything I saw in the movie, just as you did. I just do not agree that she started off as a normal teenage girl with a crush that simply went awry. All of her behavior in the movie gave me the impression that she was a highly intelligent but unbalanced person. I think that was her personality, not a new development in the hole.
share12 years later, but that's the nature of the internet lol
You've got the correct idea, and have obviously watched the movie (and understood it).
"Kerrydavis" is not making any sense at all.
She was so very brutally, obviously willing to sacrifice her friends to sleep with Mike. We KNOW this because that's exactly what happened.
If she wasn't willing to do it, she wouldn't have done it.
"KerryDavis" is only arguing tooth and nail because they very clearly cannot tell the difference between "willing" and "actively plotted/planned and executed".
Nobody (nobody) said she planned to kill her friends. They said she was WILLING to do it Because she was... because... she, well... y'know.. *DID*.