MovieChat Forums > The Score (2001) Discussion > The Heist Itself (spoilers)

The Heist Itself (spoilers)


This falls easily under the category of "Because it's a movie, and if they didn't do it, there wouldn't be a plot." So we can get that out of the way up front.

But if we ignore that for a minute and move into the film's own internal logic and look for things that strain internal consistency, the thing that bothered me the most was the complexity of the heist.

There is a scene that focuses and highlights for the audience DeNiro's refusal to ever take a long shot or a caper that does not have a high probability of success. He spends quite a while telling Norton's character about his careful, cautious, and risk-averse strategy to jobs. Earlier dialog is also careful to stress the fact that DeNiro gets to set up every aspect of this operation and that the mechanics of the caper are entirely his.

Then when we watch the actual robbery in progress, it is impossibly complex, with unlimited chances for it to be shot to hell at every step.

1) The security codes are bought from rank amateurs who see key players in the robbery gang up close and personal. At any point those guys could have the codes changed, break under pressure, or just decide to rat out the team with an anonymous tip. They already have their money.

2) Split second timing relies on Norton's janitor character being alone, out of sight, and uninterrupted for a half hour during normal work hours. Yes, it's supposed to be during his "lunch" break, but as we see, that's a lot to rely on and can easily be messed up.

3) They know they are pulling down the security cameras in the most secure area of the building, monitoring a highly guarded, high-profile item that has received a ton of attention. And yet they are gambling that once the cameras die, no security guard will bother going down to check on it for fifteen uninterrupted minutes while DeNiro bores, fills, and blows the safe. A crazy assumption.

4) The amount of heavy, specialized gear that DeNiro has to carry, set up, perform acrobatics with, and operate perfectly is overwhelming. Each piece of the process adds another chance for something to go wrong. The cumulative probability of failure should be too high for DeNiro's comfort level.

5) The final double double-cross relies on an incredible assumption that if Norton crosses him, DeNiro will simply be able to swap out a lead pipe, secure in the knowledge that Norton won't check it. Other threads have pointed out that maybe we in the audience can strain credulity enough to think that Norton might not have checked in the stress of the moment... But I can't believe that DeNiro came up with a preset plan that RELIED on that oversight.

Oh well... That's the movie. Without it we are left with nothing. I just wish they hadn't given us so much setup beforehand on how risk-averse DeNiro is. His actions sure don't match up with his big talk.

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I agree. It seemed way too risky for a guy like him. I agree with your point about the cameras going out. I'm sure if a treasure was found and the only cameras to go down we're the 3 watching it. The guards would check on it immediately. They were relying on a lot of chances to go their way.

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Late reply, but I just watched this again...

Excellent points you make, but I believe I have an answer for #5.

I think that DeNiro's assumption wasn't really that incredible - rather, I believe he was simply prepared for such an eventuality to occur.

He didn't trust Norton 100% - he never did.

At the critical moments after getting the scepter, DeNiro DID make a quick swap for the fake one, most importantly carrying the fake one as if it were the real thing. The assumption DeNiro makes that Norton WOULD double-cross him was simply an assumption. He didn't have to RELY on it as you point out. As it turns out, DeNiro's preparation proved correct. Also, Norton's failing is that he truly thought he was smarter than DeNiro, that he totally would blindside DeNiro with a betrayal that came out of nowhere.

Yes, the fact that Norton does NOT check the bag containing the scepter is questionable, but possibly realistic given the limited time they had before all hell broke loose. And of course, Norton never even gave it a thought that DeNiro would be prepared for a double-cross.

Let's assume that Norton DID NOT double-cross DeNiro, that things progressed as planned.

No harm, no foul then - DeNiro just ends up carrying the fake one on his shoulder [though he could have ditched the fake one anyplace, anytime] with the real one tucked inside his bad along with the rest of his equipment. DeNiro makes his planned escape through the secondary tunnel system, he gets on the boat to meet the buyer, gets paid, and follows through with getting Brando and Norton their cut.

Everybody wins in a straight-up fashion if Norton doesn't run the double-cross.

This is what I mean that DeNiro did not necessarily have to RELY on Norton trying to screw him.

DeNiro later tells Norton his shop and his tools are gone, leaving zero evidence behind. It is possible to assume that DeNiro, as safe a thief as he is, would have ditched his shop in any eventuality.

So yes, a big assumption by DeNiro, but I see it as being 3 moves ahead of Norton.

Had Norton been honest, DeNiro's assumption would have been irrelevant for all parties.

Not sure I made my point clear, but I think my logic answers your fifth point.

Bottom line: a GREAT heist film IMO with stellar acting from everyone involved.

cheers,
-mariusar
--
"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist."

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I appreciate the thoughtful reply, Mariusar. Actually, I wasn't clear enough in what I found improbable. Not the fact that DeNiro was ready for Norton to double-cross him... That's part of the fun of his character's careful planning. It's the fact that the ONLY way DeNiro can then double-double-cross Norton is for Norton to not quickly check the bag. So DeNiro's contingency plan for getting himself out of a bind is to hand an obvious fake to Norton and then RELY on the fact that Norton won't look at it. Not a very foolproof plan, and not quite up to the exacting care and intelligence that are built up in the screenplay for either DeNiro's or Norton's characters. It's not that it COULDN'T work... It's just that the ruse could be blown so darned easily with a two-second glance in the bag by Norton.

Oh well... It's just a movie, and this is just intellectual game playing.

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@KL: Ah, I see what you meant then...

Yes, as you explain it, the lynchpin of DeNiro's own plan is indeed relying on Norton NOT glancing inside the case to confirm the scepter was there. I probably would have done just that while trying to make sure that I had DeNiro in my sights the whole time. And I totally agree - DeNiro's incredibly calculating nature was a huge plus for me in this film.

Nothing wrong with armchair intellectual game playing! In fact, there is far too little of this kind of thing going on these days here on imdb, especially ones that are friendly and civil. lol

Just to play a little more devil's advocate here...

We assume that DeNiro's whole plan would be blown if Norton does peek in the case.

However, there is nothing to say that DeNiro WOULDN'T also have accounted for this eventuality and been also prepared:

- perhaps he had his own weapon ready to deploy on Norton if he peeks [though this may be in contradiction to DeNiro's earlier seeming disdain for carrying guns].

In the above hypothetical however, the movie probably would have devolved into your stereotypical gunplay kind of film...these can be fun if done properly [e.g., the recent, and EXCELLENT Keanu Reeves film John Wick], but would have been wholly inappropriate in The Score where not a single bullet was discharged throughout the entire movie.

Anyway, I am glad the film worked out the way it did, despite the critical oversight you bring up. And thanks for the discussion!

cheers!
-mariusar

--
"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist."

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1) Jack (Norton) was actually cleverly intimidating them into not doing that. He showed them the gun, kept asking them "questions" about who they were and where they lived and so on. Those guys had nothing to gain but a lifetime of looking over their shoulder if they ratted them out, and the hacker dude could probably prove they were accomplices as well. I mean they could eventually, and under pressure from a police investigation, come clean, but Jack was the only guy they could tie to the crime and he knew he'd be halfway gone across the world by then. They never noticed Nick (De Niro) and the hacker expert was presumably skilled enough not to get detected online.

2) You're right, but if it didn't work then Nick would have stopped in the sewers, turned around and gone home when Jack wasn't answering. Jack would have finished his shift, gone home and they would have tried the next day (providing the scepter was still there). It was an uncertain variable, but one with no real risk involved.

3) Jack probably knew those security guards pretty well by now. He was convinced he was a pretty good judge of character ("Danny loves me") and assumed they were too lazy to get off their asses, which was mostly the case. It's why his realization that Nick was one step ahead of him at the end hit all the harder. But it IS a stretch that Nick would take his word for it, though he might have had a backup plan for that that we didn't see. My guess is that Jack downplayed the camera security part of the heist, and pretended that only once in a while those monitors were being checked and that technical failures like that were not uncommon.

4) He's been doing that for his entire career. He's one of the best at doing that in the whole world. He had trust issues, and was paranoid about being caught, but he didn't doubt his own skill. And if anything seemed too hard he wouldn't have gone through with it. In the end, he did pretty well, didn't he?

5) Well, having a fake bag with the scepter in it can be handy for tons of reasons. Maybe he could throw it somewhere while escaping and trick some guards that way. Or threaten to destroy/lose it (by tossing it into some sewer thing or something) to get away from security at some point. The double cross scenario is only one of many scenarios in which a fake scepter bag could be useful, but one he definitely thought might happen. He also played his "loss" very convincingly, knew there was gonna be little time, and got the right approximate shape and weight down. It's also very in character for Jack to make this mistake, since he preferred being cocky to following more subtle, controlled methods like Nick does. It's why Nick tells the woman "don't turn around" in the opening scene, but Jack lets Danny turn around during the heist and shows himself, to enjoy his reaction and how he tricked him.

And to be honest, I always thought Nick was not as "risk-averse" as he claimed to be. I think part of that was lying to himself to feel less afraid about his own shortcomings or unknown variables, and more certain he wouldn't get caught. He also presumably lied to himself about "retiring" a lot of times, so him pretending all of his earlier jobs were foolproof to boost his confidence for his last job doesn't seem that unlikely. This doesn't have to be the case at all, but it would explain some of the stretches of his compliance with the heist. And besides that, you could make the case that it was an exaggeration to make his piece of the pie bigger. He got his paycheck from 4 to 6 million just by complaining about how "risky" the plan was, and how he "doesn't do risky". Eventually, he agrees pretty quickly as long as he gets paid more, even though not much has changed.

So that should make most of this a bit more plausible.

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Robert Deniro had to do so much work before he even got the safe open. It was exhausting to watch.

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