MovieChat Forums > Bamboozled (2000) Discussion > Dave Chappelle and Man Ray

Dave Chappelle and Man Ray


Right after I watched Bamboozled, I happened to catch Chappelle's Show The Lost Episodes. I couldn't help noticing the similarities between Man Ray and Dave Chappelle's mysterious departure. I remember that he left for Africa and the world was puzzled. After watching Bamboozled it makes a lot more sense. I've always been a big fan of Chappelle's show, but after watching Bamboozled it didn't seem as funny. Particularly the skit where the newscaster is redubbed so whenever they said the word "minority", it was replaced with the big N word. In the past I have laughed, sometimes hysterically like in the infamous skit "The N***ers" which portrays a white family with the odd last name. But hearing it over again in this instance it made me ill. And I didn't see the humour in it at all! Do you think Dave Chappelle must have felt the way Man Ray must have felt? I have never understood this before until now. That is the power of Spike Lee's film.

Cousin Cheryl, I don't think the family REALLY knows you.

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Wow, I find it remarkably interesting that you thought the same way as I. I first saw the movie about 2 years ago, and noticed very quickly the similarities between Mantan and "The Chappelle Show". It seems to me that Chappelle may have had the original intention that Pierre did (To heighten our awareness and show how ridiculous our world of stereotypes still is). Then just as Pierre, he was taken aback by the absolute love for the show. He was then caught up in the rage and money he was making just as Delacroix, but then he came to his senses. Delecroix wound up dying before he came back to the realization of how horrible it had become. It seemed as though he had his two shoulder fairies with him the whole time. His Evil fairy played by the part of Dunwitty, and the understanding and rightful fairy as personified by Sloan. Delacroix was still siding with Dunwitty at the time of his death, because money, power and fame became his friends more than his family and those who cared for him. On the other hand, Chappelle realized how foolishly accepted the show had become, and realized he had to get out. His intentions were great, but it got out of his hands and he didn't want to play out that crime any longer than he already had.

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Yeah. And I hadn't seen Bamboozled until a week ago, so before that I had no idea why Chappelle left the show. I was completely puzzled. All I kept hearing about was how he just couldn't handle the fame. I've even heard this from Dave Chappelle. After the film, I had an understanding of something I never understood before. It's a shame that most people will never have this understanding. Because it is important. And for me it was very confusing to understand at first so Bamboozled should be essential viewing for anyone who doesn't understand what the big deal is. The idea to heighten our awareness and show how ridiculous stereotyping is is noble, unfortunately people aren't sophisticated enough to understand and all it does is reinforce those stereotypes. Which is sad. It reminds me of a song by Jill Sobule called "Supermodel" which is a song that makes fun of young anorexic girls who want to grow up to be models. (Kind of like Pink's Stupid Girls but unlike Pink, Jill Sobule isn't a hippocrate) The song was really witty and very catchy, so catchy that it was used in the Clueless soundtrack. The same girls who loved the song, loved the movie, and ended up copying the same stereotypes the song was making fun of.

Cousin Cheryl, I don't think the family REALLY knows you.

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Ironic isn't it? Funny, that reminds me of an old navy commercial I recently saw. There's a girl who blows a bubble in her gum, and starts floating, and before you know it, all of these people are coming out of the woodwork grabbing on to her as she floats up. SHEEP, oblivous ignorant sheep. Unfortunetly I'd have to say, from my experience it's a pretty accurate synopsis of the USA's youth generation, which I'm not too proud to say I'm part of.

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Have you ever seen the PSP ad in Holland? You can see it here:

http://www.engadget.com/2006/07/06/sony-under-fire-for-racist-advertising/

Cousin Cheryl, I don't think the family REALLY knows you.

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Just watched it on IFC after saving it on the DVR. I saw it before, but it reinvoked some feelings in me. But please do not confuse man-tan with the dave cheppelle show. He left the show because he felt that he could not longer express his views. Many of the skits play off of stereotypes, but they indeed offer a comentary that many people would not normaly discuss. His show has not turned out into an all out bafoonery such as the man-tan show. Sure he is a comedian first, but he was sure to attack the sterio types everywhere.

Dave's show in my view forced many african americans to look at themselves and truly see why these stereotypes exist. I have seen what a true supportive person of the community Dave has been. Especialy with the Block Party (Which i attended).

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Oh they are not the same of course, but we were simply noticing some similarities. He has said in an interview before that he didn't think people would find him that funny, especially the broad community that he has filmed for. He didn't think his show would catch. The same happened with Pierre Delecroix. That's all. I have also noticed him taking a more positive approach to the situation. By no means are they the same, but just similar in a few ways.

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You must not have seen the last season of the Chappelle Show...b/c that last season (Lost Episodes) was all out bafoonery if I've never seen it. Chappelle himself, even said that he felt like some of the skits had gone beyond the limits of acceptance

"I would go to work on the show and I felt awful every day, that's not the way it was. ... I felt like some kind of prostitute or something. If I feel so bad, why keep on showing up to this place? I'm going to Africa. The hardest thing to do is to be true to yourself, especially when everybody is watching." Dave Chappelle on Oprah

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You realize that in some parts of the world, skin color doesn't matter, right? There is no racism coming out of this ad, there is only people putting it in.

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"You realize that in some parts of the world, skin color doesn't matter, right? There is no racism coming out of this ad, there is only people putting it in. "

That's funny, because I used to live in Amsterdam. One of the most tolerant places on Earth and I have definitely seen racism there.

Cousin Cheryl, I don't think the family REALLY knows you.

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Well, if you lived in Amsterdam then naturally you are a cultured individual and world-wide traveler. It should be accepted that you can channel the collective experience of mankind and know the absolute truths of the universe.

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then how about instead of being vague you get specific, name a country or a state since you know about these all tolerant non-racist places.

"I don't have an opinion. The word "opinion" implies the possibility I'm wrong."

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I donno, I see more S&M in that than racism. It's a dom/sub image. The violence is sexual, not racial.

,Said the Shotgun to the Head--
Saul Williams

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You don't give Clueless enough credit. That is a very good film.

Also, what's wrong with Pink?

,Said the Shotgun to the Head--
Saul Williams

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I love Clueless too. I was talking about the song Supermodel by Jill Sobule. It's mocking yet there were a lot of stupid girls that didn't get that.

As for Pink:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Mp115afFIA

Pot calling kettle "pink" to me!


Britney Spears makes me think God must be a John Waters fan.

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I donno, I think you can be sexy and overtly sexual and still complain about others who use this as a crutch in place of actual talent.

,Said the Shotgun to the Head--
Saul Williams

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Of course you can but we're talking about Pink. She's no more talented than the rest of them. The only difference between her and Britney is she was marketed towards rough looking girls. And Britney even stole that audience away from her!



Britney Spears makes me think God must be a John Waters fan.

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I don't know...I think that Pink (or P!nk as the album covers spell it) has shown some talent, if only in her choice of associates. She picked Linda Perry up out of semi-obscurity and after doing every track on M!zzunderstood she is now AA-list producer.

And, if you'll note, the songs she did with Pink on said record are all vastly superior to the work she later did with the likes of Christina. That said, her work with Courtney Love shows some real promise.

I don't believe it when I see that Avril has co-written all of her songs. I only semi-believe it with Katy Perry, but with Pink, the material seems (at least on M!zzunderstood) to be more personal. Like she actually put pen to paper.

That said, after that record sold 10 million she got boring real quick, even as she tried to stay edgy with production by Tim Armstrong. If you asked me, she should have aligned herself with his ex-wife Brodie Dalle, Perry and Love. Now THAT record would have been something.

,Said the Shotgun to the Head--
Saul Williams

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[deleted]

I wrote my initial statement in 2008... I'm pretty sure AA was a typo for, 'An A-list.' I have no idea what you're saying in the rest of your post.

,Said the Shotgun to the Head--
Saul Williams

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That's almost exactly how he thought, just from his interviews I've seen.

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Great response.

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Personally I think that the n**ger family skit is one that is more about exploring something, than just getting cheap laughs. Chapelle got the idea for it after the black white supremacist skit and the controversery over that use of the N-word, which was justified in a skit about KKK members. The things I like about the N**er family skit include Chapelle as the milk man who keeps saying it because in the 50s repressive America he loves being able to call white folks the word that no-doubt been used aginst him. I also like the the white people of that era are so consumed with racist ideas that when the mom tells her husband that their daughter is "dating that n**er boy for down the street" he not only reacts in horror at the idea of his daughter dating a black guy, but doesn't even question the idea that his wife would refer to a black kid from down the street as "that n**er boy."

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Just a thought....

www.chappelletheory.com

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Before you take a look at the link above, check out this defamer link, which explains the origins of the somewhat schizophrenic theory (I mean really: "The Black Crusaders"...give me a break):

http://defamer.com/hollywood/dave-chappelle/chappelle-theory-exposed-144620.php

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I see a connection with the whole chappelle issue and this movie. The chappelle show was hip and funny show but it was a satire. The thing with satires is that a lot of people do not know what a satire is and they take things literally. Another thing that is disturbing to me is when Chris Rock make Black jokes or talk about the difference with *beep* and black people is also risky and dangerous. I remember stumbling upon a white nationalist forum and they had his standups on their laughing and agreeing with him. That right their gave me a slight chill to my skin. Cause even though Rock was making a point still there is a thin line from laughing with or at people and that thin line scares the hell out of me.

My mom's been *beep* a dead guy for 30 years. I call him dad. _Clerks

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I'm going to tell you right now,i read that theory and i KNOW it's true.For the last couple of weeks i've been tuning in to Dave and analyzing the vague statements he makes regarding why he left the show and they totally coincide with the events that played out in the timeline.I am so amazed at how fluidly it all came together.I am disgusted that they would threaten to harm Dave.They are rich and privilieged and do not represent the majority of Black people.It terrifies me to think that Farrakan killed Martin Luther King...why would he do that? What is his motive? Martin L. King was empowering black people!

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Malcolm X, not MLK

Did I not love him, Cooch? MY OWN FLESH I DIDN'T LOVE BETTER!!! But he had to say 'Nooooooooo'

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"In man ray case racism was definitely being exploited.

but Dave's a smart man. He was just exploring the disempowerment of the word nlgger. I believe before the skit he asks the audience if black people just identify themselves with the word nlgger, but what if they just used the word for other people? Would it be so bad? "


Yes that's true. I just can't help thinking that maybe there was some internal struggle there in some way. Kind of like when Richard Pryor recalled going to Africa and having this epiphany and how he vowed to never to use the word *beep* again. I forget exactly how he phrased it but anyway it reminded me of that. Being white I never truly understood. I only knew racism from my point of view. But this amazing film delve deep inside. It's hard to articulate. I do think Chapelle is a genius. The film made me think though that to be black and use the word *beep* or stereotypes, one must have to go through internal conflict. And to question oneself when they see white people laughing. I know after watching this I questioned myself for laughing.

Cousin Cheryl, I don't think the family REALLY knows you.

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Firstly, I must express my excitement that this discussion thread is addressing one of the many important themes of this film: the limits and challenges of using satire to reappropriate/neutralize hateful stereotypes. This theme can be explored through discussion of the Chappelle Show, but it definitely extends far beyond that.

I thought it was very interesing that Delacroix quotes Mark Twain concerning satire as a means to racial harmony. I came away from this film convinced that you cannot simply laugh away bigotry. An artist is never in control of his audience, and once something has entered the cultural mainstream it may be distorted without notice, acknowledgment, or apology. Delacroix expects his outrageous Mantan show to get him fired, but the show is a hit. As Chappelle mentions in one episode (I believe near the beginning of the second season), he was shocked that white viewers were using his black white supremacist sketch as excuse to use the N word.

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I think the movie shows how quickly rascism can spread. In the end every character has done something to promote it, either through acting out negative stereotypes, violence and fear tactics, or by a willingness to be exploited for personal gain.

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Back when the Dave Chappelle "meltdown" or whatever they were calling it happened, I IMMEDIATELY thought of this movie. It was Bamboozled playing out publicly in one entertainer's life/career. But I'm sure it has happened and is happening just as Spike said to many more black entertainers past and present as the norm of how they have to operate and succeed (and then ultimately fall) in Show Biz.

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