MovieChat Forums > Kaubôi bibappu: Cowboy Bebop (2001) Discussion > Your OPINION: Did Spike die or not??

Your OPINION: Did Spike die or not??

posted 10 years ago by sawfan1414
25 replies | jump to latest

One of the most infamous debates when it comes to anime, is whether or not the always cool Spike Spiegel met his end at the end of the final episode or not. I seen that this board doesn't have one of these threads, and I'm not here to argue it, unless you want to, I mainly just want to hear other opinions and the reasons you believe he died or not.

My opinion: He died. Yes I would LOVE nothing more than he be alive and with Jet and Faye on the Bebop, but I personally feel the story doesn't work if he survives. The series had been building from episode 1, with the conversation with Bull that Spike's star would burn out. Throughout we got similar foreshadowing's.

His only purpose to keep living was to see Julia again, and when she died he lost everything, he had nothing left to live for and only then he decided to confront his past, something he's been avoiding knowing it would be the end of his life.

The evidence never becomes more sound than the final scene, right after he falls you see the same flock of doves that flew over when Julia was killed, the song singing over the credits is about ascending into heaven, while the camera pans up into the skies. The star that has been so heavily talked about, burns out followed by a single image of Spike, dead.

I'd love to hear other opinions!

Ron *beep* Swanson is the greatest thing that ever happened to television.

[–] Spliter 10 years ago

I was hoping the movie would explain it, instead it's just a 2 hour episode.....

I vote he's dead, since all the cliches are in place to symbolize his death is legit.

Of course, if/when they decide to revitalize the series it wouldn't be a too much of a problem to bring him back to life in the realm of plausibility, and suspensions of disbelief.

[–] sawfan1414 10 years ago

I was hoping the movie would explain it, instead it's just a 2 hour episode.....

and that's a bad thing? More Bebop is always a good thing and the movie was fantastic.

I vote he's dead, since all the cliches are in place to symbolize his death is legit.

I get the sense you're not really a Bebop fan? There was nothing clichéd about it. It was amazing storytelling.

Of course, if/when they decide to revitalize the series it wouldn't be a too much of a problem to bring him back to life in the realm of plausibility, and suspensions of disbelief.

Sadly Watanabe said recently he has no desire to revisit past shows, he said Spike's story has been told, so I don't think we'll be seeing any more Bebop. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, it could diminish the past series.

If anything, I'd like to see more Trigun. Have them do a faithful adaptation ala FMA Brotherhood. Seeing Badlands Rumble brought back so much nostalgia.

Ron *beep* Swanson is the greatest thing that ever happened to television.

[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Spliter 10 years ago

Sadly Watanabe said recently he has no desire to revisit past shows, he said Spike's story has been told, so I don't think we'll be seeing any more Bebop. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, it could diminish the past series.

actually he said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y4Z1uvexzrQ

Whilst ruling out further anime episode he confirmed that there will definitely be an American Live action Cowboy Bebop movie. He also confirmed for the first time that in his opinion the show's lead character Spike actually survived the final episode of the beloved series and remains his personal favorite character.

[–] sawfan1414 10 years ago

I was referring to when he's been asked about revisiting the series to make new episodes, he said he has no interest in revisiting older projects.

Whilst ruling out further anime episode he confirmed that there will definitely be an American Live action Cowboy Bebop movie. He also confirmed for the first time that in his opinion the show's lead character Spike actually survived the final episode of the beloved series and remains his personal favorite character.

He's never confirmed Spike's survival. He's always stated something along the lines of "I've never said if he lived or died. It's up to each viewer." so as to not upset a part of the fandom (at this point, he can NEVER admit to one side or the other.) The whole thing about him saying he's sleeping... 1. That's his POV, it's what himself, as a viewer, likes to think happened. 2. Sleeping is often interpreted as eternal sleep in Japanese culture.

Also, there is no live action movie. It's stuck in development hell, Keanu Reeves was the driving force behind it but every studio turned him down because he wanted a budget of $500 million.

Ron *beep* Swanson is the greatest thing that ever happened to television.

[–] MrsSpooky 10 years ago

Yeah, that's pretty much what he said. In another interview he stated that he thought that those who thought he was alive were "probably correct." Still noncommittal on the subject.

I'm finding most of the people who talk about the show on message boards say he died. The people who I talk to offline who love the show say he lived. These folks don't tend to hang out on message boards, having lives, I guess. This from someone who hangs out on message boards. LOL

From my observations, the fandom is split roughly 60-40 over whether he died or lived. Couldn't have been THAT obvious.

I'm of the opinion that he lived, but I'm more sure that the ending was ambiguous. I can't blame anyone for thinking he died. It's all what we got out of it.

As for the live action movie, I'm torn on my feelings about that. I'd love to see it, but then, Hollywood has a horrible reputation when translating anime into live action. The names I'm hearing that were attached to it though know and love the show, and if they can fight studio interference, it might be decent. IF it even gets made, that is. :}

We're all stories in the end. Just make it a good one.
http://mrsspooky.net/bebop

[–] MrsSpooky 9 years ago

The movie was interesting, because I took that as a post Real Folk Blues dream. Starts out with Spike asleep on the couch with Jet trying to get him up, then cut to him walking to a convenience store. Then in the middle that weird POV shot from where Spike was lying on the couch with Jet telling him he just barely made it, then the very end, Spike is still lying on the couch, same spot he was before, opens his eyes and grabs the butterfly as it fades.

Watanabe and company were asked if the movie was real or was a dream and he said that if you told him it was real he'd say it was a dream and if you told him it was a dream he'd reply that it was real. So we make up our own minds.

I take the ending that way too, some say he died, others say he didn't. The man himself even said that those who say Spike lived are probably correct. It's all what we get out of it and for that reason I think it was ambiguous. I'm inclined to say he lived, but sometimes I have to say I'm not sure.

Personally, I don't think there is a right answer to that question, but if I had to answer, I'd say "lived." :)

It all just disappears, doesn't it? Everything you are, gone in moment. Like breath on a mirror.

[–] ScottMerica 10 years ago

Literally just finished the show for the first time and I loved it, very fitting and emotional ending, although I wish Spike and Vicious' fight lasted longer. I believe he's dead due to the many reasons you already pointed out, plus if he turned out to be alive it would ruin the impact of the ending completely. Also, maybe I'm stupid but what exactly did the last quote "You're gonna carry that weight?" mean exactly?

No one expects the Stannis inquisition!

[–] sawfan1414 10 years ago

Hey! Welcome to Bebop  It's my favorite anime. Also I totally agree that If he survived that it'd take away the emotional impact. Now that you finished it, I'm gonna ask a few questions lol.

1. What was your favorite scene from the series? If it's Spike storming the syndicate, do you have a second favorite?

2. Favorite song in the series? I love the soundtrack.

3. Do you have any other favorite anime?

By the way, I looked at your list of shows that you still need to watch, you have some amazing shows in there, The Shield is probably my favorite television show of all time. That, Bebop, and Six Feet Under have my favorite endings ever made. I'm into season 2 of Hannibal and my god is that series amazing, Arrested Development (seasons 1-3 anyway) is amazing, Brotherhood is amazing as well! One of the best stories told in anime, That's definitely in my top 10 favorite anime. Be warned about Death Note, the final 12 episodes takes a hard nosedive. I'd also recommend adding Dexter and Justified to that list.

Also, maybe I'm stupid but what exactly did the last quote "You're gonna carry that weight" mean exactly?

Not a stupid question at all bro! Like Bebop itself, it's a complex statement that has several meanings and everyone has their own interpretation. A heavy element in Bebop is music, and it's based off the Beatles song "Carry That Weight." For me the statement has three meanings.

1. The "weight" is all the inner turmoil the characters carried and never really dealt with throughout the show. They were all betrayed by those they cared about. Spike with the syndicate and Julia. Faye waking up in a world she doesn't know and being betrayed by the only person she cared about. Jet with his long lost love and being betrayed by his best friend. Even Ed with her loneliness and being ditched by those that she loved.

2. Is for the fans themselves. It's the fans responsibility to "carry the weight" of the Bebop, to carry the legacy of the series.

I seen this in another thread and I liked it, it's a longer explanation than my interpretation above but it deals with Spike more than anything. "It's in direct relation to Spike himself, since it said it after the last frame of Spike. It refers to the weight Spike carried around with him after leaving the syndicate. Throughout the series, Spike seems like a pretty easy going guy and when it comes time to get down to action, he acts in immediacy, without caution that he may die. But if something from his past shows up, he acts differently (like how he reacts when he merely hears Julia's name.) I think he's pretty obviously carrying a lot of emotional baggage around from his younger days in the syndicate and everything that's happened since. So much so, that he feels like he's "merely living a dream that I can't wake up from" meaning he feels dead inside and hasn't felt alive since he's seen Julia."

Ron *beep* Swanson is the greatest thing that ever happened to television.

[–] ScottMerica 10 years ago

1. What was your favorite scene from the series? If it's Spike storming the syndicate, do you have a second favorite?

That's a tough one. I can't pick just one so here's a few

-Faye and everyone else watching her videotape
-Ed and Ein's mushroom hunt
-Spike's last scenes with Jet and Faye
-Spike watching those white things fall on Venus
-Spike v Vicious in Ballad of the Fallen Angels

However the three that stick out to me are Spike storming the syndicate, Ed and Ein leaving the Bebop and Spike's "bang". Actually, Ed and Ein leaving would probably be it, that ending was the closest I've ever come to crying in a tv show. Ein giving his last looks at Jet and the Bebop before chasing after Ed killed me. That was the moment I realized how much I loved the characters and didn't want them to separate and that it was the beginning of the end. It's funny, the relationships between the characters are so subtle and I felt the same exact way.

2. Favorite song in the series? I love the soundtrack.

Another tough one. Bebop probably has the most varied and memorable soundtrack I've ever heard. My favorites would probably be "Tank", "Blue", "Too Good Too Bad", "Ask DNA" and "Space Lion".

3. Do you have any other favorite anime?

I actually have just gotten into anime. Attack on Titan was my first, that is crazy addicting and awesome as well, but not in the same way as Bebop. Then I saw Bebop and got about halfway through then stopped for some reason. Then recently I started FMA: Brotherhood and really enjoy that (I'm only five episodes in, that one with the talking chimera or whatever it was disturbed the hell outa me). Then I realized I hadn't finished Bebop yet so I went back and blew past episodes 15-26 and the movie in a couple days. Now I'm sad

Be warned about Death Note, the final 12 episodes takes a hard nosedive. I'd also recommend adding Dexter and Justified to that list.

I'm hesitant on Death Note, I know it's very popular but after Bebop and FMA I'm afraid it won't live up to the hype. I couldn't get into Dexter, and I love Justified! And thanks for the answer on "You're gonna carry that weight." It opened my eyes a bit

You're gonna carry that weight.

[–] GorillazButter 10 years ago

He's dead and I've never seen this debated to begin with. Heck I don't even consider it an opinion.

He falls down, and we see his 'star' go out. Cue emotional music about being free. The ending just wouldn't have the same impact if he were still alive, not for me anyway.

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I'd love to see you in the moonlight with your head thrown back and your body on fire.

[–] ZakkWyldeMyLittlePony 10 years ago

I think he didn't.

RIP
Jeff Hanneman
1964-2013

[–] movie_nazi 10 years ago

I'm not quite sure this is debated. It's pretty plain to see that he did indeed die. How so? Well the Native American Shaman already explained in the episode Jupiter Jazz that when a warrior dies you see a shooting star as was the case when Gren died. This is illustrated so that in case there were anybody in the audience too dim figure out that Spike is dead at the end that hopefully, HOPEFULLY, this would spell it out for them.

Never underestimate the stupidity of people.

My Vote history: http://www.imdb.com/user/ur1914996/ratings

[–] jwelker 10 years ago

No, this is definitely a topic that is debated. I'm pretty sure more people believe that he died than do not, but there definitely are people who have the contrary position.

[–] movie_nazi 10 years ago

No, this is definitely a topic that is debated. I'm pretty sure more people believe that he died than do not, but there definitely are people who have the contrary position.

I think it is people letting their emotions get the best of them. Plus the series seems to illustrate quite a bit of extravagant injuries being survived to whereas it could appear Spike may have indeed survived the battle. For example he survives a fall from the top of a cathedral in Ballad of Fallen Angels not to mention other incidents. But the whole Native American thing pretty much concretes my belief that he did indeed pass on. Besides wouldn't it be kinda sh!tty if he did not die? It would lessen the emotional impact of the story.

My Vote history: http://www.imdb.com/user/ur1914996/ratings

[–] jwelker 10 years ago

Agreed.

[–] Zanza8 10 years ago

Spike died. I wish he hadn't, but he did. After Julia died, he had nothing to live for-she was his white cat and that story was his way of saying he didn't want to live anymore. And there were enough visual cues, like the birds flying up and the star burning out-the shot went straight from Spike laying there up to the star and it went out. Very poignant.

http://thinkingoutloud-descartes.blogspot.com/

[–] theallenjohan 9 years ago

I think he did, but it really doesn't matter. He was able to fulfill his destiny and truly lived, that is, after getting rid of his past once and for all.

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My Top Animated: http://www.imdb.com/list/zyDiSPMGtuM/

[–] eddy0081 9 years ago

My opinion: Not dead. Only one star fell, ergo only Vicious died.

[–] Dangerous-Boy 9 years ago

I agree. It was Vicious' star. A star falls each time someone times like Gren.

Also, if you watch the movie, Jet even states that Spike lived and Vicious died.

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His foundation lies in the holy mountains. Selah.

[–] BucoDelores 9 years ago

Where does he say/imply this in the movie?

[–] sawfan1414 9 years ago

The movie takes place before episode 24, Ed and Ein are still apart of the crew. Spike didn't storm the syndicate until after the events of the movie.

[–] Dangerous-Boy 9 years ago

The movie is a dream. Jet clearly tells spike after the syndicate operation that he almost didn't make it at 1:01:08.

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His foundation lies in the holy mountains. Selah.