MovieChat Forums > Memento (2001) Discussion > Why did Leonard decide to target Teddy?

Why did Leonard decide to target Teddy?

posted 9 years ago by melissaped523
32 replies | jump to latest

Spoilers obviously.

I know there are all sorts of theories out there about this movie and the motives of the characters. The thing that messed with my head the most was that, in my opinion, there wasn’t a clear enough explanation as to why Leonard exactly decided to target Teddy next after finding out "the truth". Sure he wasn’t the most honest person in the world but out of everyone in the movie he seemed the most genuine. If he was telling the truth in the big reveal he was interested in helping Leonard find the man that raped his wife in the beginning. And not only did he want to help, he made it possible. Leonard may not have been able to do this without Teddy's help. Not to mention sure, he used him but he did this partially because he WANTED Leonard to remember the past or at least feel that fulfillment again.

So after thinking about it, I personally narrowed this down to three theories as to why Leonard chose Teddy: sociopathic convenience, ironic revenge for being used/manipulated, or to prevent him from ever hearing "the truth" again.

The first is the least satisfying IMO but plausible due to his little speech at the end of the movie (or middle of the story). This theory suggests that the twist (besides his long term memory being unreliable) is the protagonist, who we are supposed to be rooting for, literally gives no *beep* about morality or the reality around him and is simply enamored with "the chase." He hurries up and picks someone else to target before he forgets that his past target is dead. Teddy just happened to be that person because he is the only one around during the reveal. The convenience comes from the fact that his legal name just happens to be a “John G.” and he has a license plate to look into. There isn't much to contradict this theory but damn does that make me really dislike Leonard. So he can't just straight up kill people but he is totally okay with "tricking" himself into killing someone who has been by his side just because you need someone to chase? Ugh...

The second theory is the most satisfying but the least plausible IMO. This is the ironic revenge theory. After finding out that even though Leonard does enjoy the chase he doesn’t like the idea that Teddy had manipulated him and used him to target people of his choosing. Teddy knew the truth all along but instead of disappearing after Leonard got his revenge he continued to use Leonard to get other bad guys and possibly score some cash in the process. It still kind of ties into the first theory a bit because there is very little doubt in my mind that he doesn’t enjoy "the chase" more than actual revenge. But at least he selects Teddy for an actual reason rather than him just being in the wrong place at the wrong time. So Leonard, being pissed because Teddy used him, uses Teddy back by making him the next target to give his life some meaning. Not to mention his next target was also someone who wronged him. The reason I say it’s the least plausible is because I feel maybe Leonard should have touched down on this when he has the final internal dialogue at the end of the film. which he doesn’t. Also I don't get his logic. If he loves the chase so much that it matters more than the truth, Teddy using him is actually a pretty useful tool. Teddy knows all the details of his life and condition. Teddy has resources since he is a cop to find more "John G"s in the future. What the hell is Leonard going to do after Teddy is dead? It's going to be a lot harder for him to do this over and over again until he dies without Teddy's help. It may have not been 100% genuine but Teddy was still helping Leonard, not to mention he isn't entirely too against lying since he is willing to do it to his damn self. Hypocritical much?

The third theory is the most plausible IMO. When Teddy tells him "the truth" he doesn't like hearing it and would rather continue to live the lie he has conditioned himself to believe because it brings him more happiness. Even though he will forget what Teddy told him in like 10 minutes, he chooses to kill Teddy so he will never have to experience hearing the truth ever again. This is because Teddy is the only one close to him who knows the full details of his past je and continues to involve himself in Leonard's life. This kind of doesn’t make sense though because ultimately it doesn’t matter since he won’t remember it. Plus he didn't really seem all to emotional when he was told the truth. He should have broken down more, finding out YOU are the one responsible for your wife's death (even if it wasn't intentional) instead of some evil rapist has to be pretty horrifying.

But yeah, opinions?

[–] The_Ultimate_Hippo 9 years ago

Leonard was mad at teddy for using him, he wanted to kill him but he couldn't because he wasn't a cold blooded killer, so he convinced himself that teddy killed his wife because that was the only thing that would make him kill someone else.

[–] mad_weather 9 years ago

To me, his internal monologue had enough of justification to assume the second option.

[–] the-author 9 years ago

Simple...John made Leonard kill Jimmy. So, he acts to stop this. Ironically by choosing to kill one more John G. But it is the last because of the plate tattoo.

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[–] backlash 9 years ago

I just wish it went far enough back to the first tattoo on where he got the name John G. Why such a vague tattoo? If the whole point of pulling the John G. fact out of his ass is to push the plot, that is annoying as *beep*.

The most unbelievable part of the movie is that Lenny's real name is John Gamble. The irony is in the name I guess. Why would John dare to hang out with a guy that is hell bent to find someone of the same name? Is it really worth the risk to use a guy that is "so good at killing" when eventually you will be his next target?

The other thing I find incomprehensible is Natalie sleeping with him after she knows he has her address, her work place and was responsible for the death of the dealer and her husband. (he is driving his car and wearing his suit) Even if the plan all along was to get rid of them two and John that knows them all, wouldn't she be afraid after everything that is involved that the cops would find the bodies, the finger prints, the killer, see his condition and track down his steps back to her?

[–] the-author 9 years ago

Most likely, the tattoo is flawed, perhaps deliberate.
It was accurate in Memento Mori, even a picture of the man's face was tattooed.
So, most were willing to accept the tattoo of John G as accurate.

I feel we learn that John Gammel is the John G of the tattoo.
It is too coincidental for John G to be 'helping' Leonard find John G.
It would be flawed writing, not suspense. The odds are too ridiculous.
But, when we see Leonard set-up events as with the escort and in targeting 'Teddy', we start to question or realize that Leonard may have just as deviously given himself the information for the tattoo.

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[–] 9 years ago

[deleted]

[–] the-author 9 years ago

It is a coincidence but not much of one.

Lenny had no idea Teddy's real name was John G. until he told him.

It isn't just John, it is John G. Highly unlikely.
Besides, a big coincidence is a big no-no in screenwriting.

Leonard would only know Teddy's real name if he had it written down.
The fact that they worked together for over a year and Leonard didn't have a picture of John stands out. what happened to his last picture? did it have a name on it?

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[–] mad_weather 9 years ago

The fact that they worked together for over a year and Leonard didn't have a picture of John stands out.

It is a fact that they worked together a year ago, when Leonard killed the original John G. It is a fact that they worked together now, when Teddy sensed an easy possibility to get Jimmy's stash using Leonard as a weapon without risking his own skin. It is *not* a fact that they worked together or simply kept each other's company between these events.

[–] the-author 9 years ago

Potatoe pototo

It is a fact that they worked together a year ago

The point is, Leonard had to have had an earlier picture of John Gammel. Since he didn't have one before the one we see him take, it proves he wouldn't know 'Teddy's' real name at that point.

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[–] mad_weather 9 years ago

He might have in the beginning, but a year is a long time for the one like him.

[–] the-author 9 years ago

Leonard doesn't date them, so no difference.

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[–] mad_weather 9 years ago

I mean that during that year he might lose it/throw it away as unnecessary/be swindled out of it by Teddy who didn't want to leave such a good-bye souvenir/whatever.

[–] the-author 9 years ago

Then, you agree with what I said. Good.

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[–] mad_weather 9 years ago

~_^ You said that Leonard worked with Teddy for a whole year. I say he didn't. You keep saying Teddy is a real killer and not a cop. I say otherwise. I'd say that it's a weird way to see someone "agreeing" with you, but then again, it's not hot news that you're living in your own hallucinatory world that has little contact with reality. The reality laughs at you, and you don't even notice.

[–] the-author 9 years ago

what basis do you have to say that Leonard and John hadn't seen each other for a whole year? sounds like fan fiction to me. John says, "You get half" which seems to refer to a past event before Jimmy. (Although John could easily have kept 90% and lied to Leonard)

What does "Teddy is a real killer" mean? Are you talking about Jimmy?

Teddy is a cop...has been discussed before. But, if John is a cop...why is Jimmy still in the basement? why didn't John call in that he went to the exchange and Jimmy was already dead? Why wasn't John a cop when at the tattoo parlor? why wasn't he a cop when he saw Dodd? Why didn't he run a computer check on Dodd? Why didn't he pull out his badge or revolver? I can only agree that Leonard thought John was a cop at times. Leonard did not think John was a cop when they were at the diner, nor did John say that he knew about police work because he was a cop.

pop!

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[–] mad_weather 9 years ago

what basis do you have to say that Leonard and John hadn't seen each other for a whole year?

It's not that they *definitely* hadn't seen each other. It's that since there is no evidence that they did, this assumption can't be used to support any other notion, like "Leonard had to have had an earlier picture of John Gammel."

John says, "You get half" which seems to refer to a past event before Jimmy.

No it doesn't. It specifically refers to money he hopes to get from Jimmy's car.

(Although John could easily have kept 90% and lied to Leonard)

Quite possibly that was the plan. Or he might not tell Lenny about money at all, if everything went as he hoped.

why is Jimmy still in the basement?

And why wouldn't he be? Everybody agrees here that Teddy isn't a *good* cop, he's a crooked one, and the whole Jimmy affair is what he's doing to his own personal benefit rather than as a duty. It is in his interest for Jimmy to stay undiscovered (at least until Teddy gets his money, which didn't happen).

why didn't John call in that he went to the exchange and Jimmy was already dead?

What would he gain from it? If he did, the car would be searched and the money case would be confiscated as evidence.

Why wasn't John a cop when at the tattoo parlor?

Again, what would he gain from it if he pulled rank? Waiting for a couple of minutes isn't a big hindrance, and the tattoo lady would remember him as a cop instead of just "some guy with moustache".

why wasn't he a cop when he saw Dodd?

Same as above. Dodd wasn't someone he was *required* to pursue by his superior, and revealing himself as a cop would give him more trouble than it is worth.

You seem to honestly believe that cop's badge is some magical baton that allows its bearer to do anything he desires. It is not true. You can't just flash it and say "I am a cop, get out of town". Once you use your cop privileges, you have to act by rules, act by procedure. Anyone who thinks he's mistreated by an officer has right to demand his name and file a complaint, and violating the procedure is serious business.

What John does with Lenny - covering an escapee from an institution, helping him to get his revenge first, then using him as a pawn in murdering Jimmy - is illegal. Doing so while being a cop - is an aggravation to the crime. Every time Teddy reveals his cop identity to any person involved with Lenny, he increases risk to be caught himself.

nor did John say that he knew about police work because he was a cop.

Saying so wouldn't help him to win the argument, because what Lenny said about cop work isn't wrong. "The cops don't catch a killer by sitting around remembering stuff, they collect facts and draw conclusions" - this is exact truth. It's just that Lenny *himself* is not fully capable to act by this principle, even though he thinks otherwise, but Teddy being a cop doesn't add anything to the argument.

[–] the-author 9 years ago

very weak replies based solely on opinion rather than the film itself. Dodd would still return for his money unless John 'pulled rank' and threatened to arrest Dodd if he returned to town. Also, if John was a cop he would never consider taking dodd's truck or Jimmy's shoes, nor would he benefit in any way by identifying himself as a snitch. He's a pretty weak cop if he lets a tattoo lady boss him around when 200 grand is lying in Jimmy's car. John could show his badge and pretend to arrest Leonard, taking the money for himself. I don't see any of John's actions as something a cop would do or say, even pulling out his badge instead of his gun to check on Jimmy.

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[–] mad_weather 9 years ago

Dodd would still return for his money unless John 'pulled rank' and threatened to arrest Dodd if he returned to town.

Very weak reply based solely on opinion rather than the film itself. We do see Dodd out, and we don't see him back in. Deal with it.

Also, if John was a cop he would never consider taking dodd's truck or Jimmy's shoes

Actually, he *didn't* take either. As for never thinking/grumbling about such things, you're thinking about some imaginary ideal person rather than a living one.

nor would he benefit in any way by identifying himself as a snitch.

Actually, he calls himself a snitch only once when he doesn't want Lenny to realize that speaking about a "bad cop that is laughing at you" he's in fact talking about himself, yet he needs to explain why does he know what he does. During the exposition, he says that he was the cop assigned to Lenny's wife's case. A snitch and an investigating officer are different specialties.

[–] the-author 9 years ago

A cop would never be so stupid to think about trophies, esp. shoes from a guy he had killed by Leonard. The film shows exactly what I am saying. You are ignoring what is exactly shown in the film itself.
to believe a drug dealer would simply leave town because some lunatic beat him up is too naive.
Do you really believe what your saying or are you just trying to contradict logic?

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[–] m-madel 9 years ago

Do you really believe what your saying or are you just trying to contradict logic?

Actually, mad_weather was the only one using logic in your argument. You, OTOH, are just inventing what you think "real" cops, "real" criminals, "real" drug dealers, etc. would do in those situations. That is not "logic" - that is opinion.

I have to say, while your commitment is admirable, I don't quite understand your continual desire to try to get every other fan of the movie to accept the inane theory that you (and, what... maybe 10 to 20 other people on the planet?) believe.

[–] the-author 9 years ago

reason is reason.
one can predict the behavior and anti-behavior of characters as they are shown.
John is not shown as a very forgetful person.
Could he forget to bring his gun to the hotel? yes, its possible.
could he get caught up in the moment and leave his fingerprints at the crime scene? yes, not likely but it could happen.
Could he not realize that taking Jimmy's shoes would directly link him to the murder? now that's a big leap. Is he shown to be inept or shrewd and calculating?
would a cop likely try to steal someone's car after they have seen his face? highly unlikely.

would a major drug dealer give up pursuing 200000 dollars? it depends on how credible the threat is or how skilled the other person is at hiding. All we are shown is that Natalie feels that she is no longer held accountable and, importantly to the plot, now feels she owes Leonard a favor.

While each scenario has possibilities, a discerning viewer takes a look at the overall picture.

I am here to discuss the film. I have never said that I was here to try to get every fan to accept my understanding of the film.

If everyone has a full grasp of the story and all its meaning, than why do both Nolan brothers say that the true story of Memento has not nor will be revealed. If John simply told the complete truth than their statements are without any basis.

What I have said about Leonard's tattoo bears a lot of merit as does questioning how much truth/lies John is telling.

thanks for following my posts. You can learn a lot.

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[–] m-madel 9 years ago

reason is reason.

One person's reason is another person's opinion. But neither of them is logic.

If everyone has a full grasp of the story and all its meaning, than why do both Nolan brothers say that the true story of Memento has not nor will be revealed.

Because some artists prefer their work to be shrouded in ambiguity because they think it automatically equates to depth (it doe not). Nolan, although a talented filmmaker, is not an artist with much depth. In any case, the irrelevance of these statements can be discovered by just reading/hearing statements Nolan made at a different time, which completely contradict these statements.

What I have said about Leonard's tattoo bears a lot of merit as does questioning how much truth/lies John is telling.

The tattoo record is faulty and contains lies - exactly like Leonard's long term memory is proven to be.

thanks for following my posts. You can learn a lot.

Sorry, I haven't been following your posts. Just checked in on the Memento board and noticed you were still doing "your thing". What is it...5 or 6 years now?

[–] the-author 9 years ago

I reason with logic. If I give an opinion, I will say, "in my opinion".

Your opinion of Nolan seems without much merit as many consider his work to have depth.(If it doesn't have depth, why discuss it in detail?) You seem to be confusing one statement with his ambiguous views of 'Teddy' telling the truth and him lying.

I have said many times that Leonard's tattoos are faulty. Agreed.

Leonard's memory could be perfect long term, but he is able to lie. that's another thread altogether. By long term memory, are your referring to what he knew before the accident?

Sounds like you have read some posts a few years back, though I don't trust your memory. the board is better since sdckapr left town.

I recommend you read Memento Mori.

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[–] ChrRome 9 years ago

I may not be remembering a detail in the film that disproves my comment, but it's possible Leonard initially sought out Teddy because he was a John G, then when trying to determine whether he was the specific John G he was looking for Teddy decided to help.

[–] NoEasyBucketsBro 9 years ago

Teddy says that he was one of the cops that worked on his wife's case. I think it's more likely that Teddy sympathized with him from the beginning and decided to help, or maybe planned to use him all along. Either way I think he inserted himself into Leonard's life.

[–] registers-944-48791 9 years ago

Leonard didn't know everything. He just knew what was available to him at that time. And Teddy was a jerk some times.

Teddy didn't seem to be a good guy trying to help. He was fooling and playing with Leonard, sending him to people he didn't wanna kill at all.

Upon knowing that, at that moment, Leonard wanted it to stop. He knew he'd soon forget it all, so the only way he found to stop it was to lie to himself, leading him to kill Teddy.

I'm sure he'd do something the same with that woman, if he had the chance to write it.

Also see that first Leonard wrote "don't trust his lies". It means that he first just warned himself to get away from Teddy. It didn't work, so he decided that the only way was killing him.

[–] registers-944-48791 9 years ago

I don't see so many possibilities and don't agree with yours.

Of course Leonard didn't enjoy the chase. He just did that because the last thing he remembers is his wife being raped and killed. She didn't die, but he doesn't know that. It's sad they don't show what used to happen to Leonard when he discovers she's indeed alive, what exactly made her suicide.

Anyway. Every day he wakes up not understanding what's happening. He sees the note on his hand to remember the memory guy, and figures out that happened to him. He gets angry and decides to chase the murderer. He changes clothers and discovers the tatoos and photos, and understands the system he created.

Teddy in the begining helped him. But he always forgets, and is always obsessed with a chase that there's no more need. It's boring and frustrating to meet somebody that's always the same every day. Teddy could and should just have let Leonard go, Leonard doesn't even know him so it would be done. But decides to follow him and provide him new targets.

Some day Leonard learns the truth, and that Teddy is manipulating him. He writes on the photo to never trust his lies. From that point, Leonard starts not trusting Teddy, not even knowing why. Teddy should have noticed it and just go back to his life. But he keeps trying to control and mess Leonard.

Leonard is always confused for not remembering what's happening, but he tries to hide it and pretend everything is ok.

What Teddy neglects is that, indeed, not all days are the same. Leonard is progressing, evolving. He doesn't remember, but he keeps adding info to tattoos and photos. Most of time he is lost, but some times he figures out and knows what he's doing, as when we hires the hotel and adds the map and when he writes stuff.

Then finally Leonard learns the truth again. But Teddy acts as a jerk, laughing on him. Teddy thinks it's ok to fool Leonard because soon he'll forget everything. Teddy was just putting out his frustration. But Leonard figures why he added the don't trust message and sees that the message wasn't enough, that Teddy kept messing with him. So Leonard sees that Teddy will never stop. So, in the short time available, the only solution that appears is to kill him. He adds the message to do so, and soon after he kills Teddy.

What will happen next? Leonard will keep waking up and going on his chase. He just won't have Leonard anymore. There's still that woman, and also anybody he may meet and decide to mess with him.

Eventually he may find peace by locking himself and providing purpose for living and some way to calm him down. Or either he will end up killing himself to stop this loop.

[–] Todd_B 9 years ago

After Leonard got the license plate tattooed on himself he would never confuse who Teddy was again. There is only 1 Teddy with the license plate provided, which means Leonard gets to spend the rest of his life reliving the joy he feels about killing Teddy, who he actually killed because Teddy was jerking him around.

[–] the-author 9 years ago

John G....not Teddy. That was the tattoo, John G.
It would seem idiotic for the film to make both John G's a coincidence.
Like Leonard is told by Natalie, he will never remember his vengeance.

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[–] april_rain 9 years ago

I agree with the second theory. When Teddy tells Lenny the ugly truth, he is unable to handle it.
"Can I just let myself forget what you just told me? Can I just let myself forget what you made me do?"

There is a chilling moment when he decides to make Teddy his "John G" even though he tells himself "I am not a killer. I am just someone who wanted to make things right".

Its obvious that, he is an unreliable narrator and that we can't trust his long term memory either. "Remember Sammy Jankins" is a note he uses to recreate a set of long term memories that he wants to believe.

After Teddy is dead, he probably stops his quest for John G. He won't remember that teddy had used him to kill others or that he was the one who killed his wife.

[–] registers-944-48791 8 years ago

Very good points here!

Yes, Leonard is paranoid. He could just have accepted it and move his life, or enter depression. But his last memories and his condition turn him into action, and he wanna chase the murderer and kill him.

What happens is that, at some points, when he faces the truth or part of it, and he's unable to deal with it, he leads himself into taking actions to fleeing from reality or making it easier to deal with it.

Take as example the moment he burns his wife's stuff. It's so painful to wake up and feel she's around to then remember she's gone, that he leads himself into burning the stuff that remembers him of her and moving into a hotel. Just to not wake up thinking she's there.

A big point in the movie is that he's unable to hold memories, but he still has feelings and other stuff from a normal person. He suffers every time he resets and remembers she's dead, and clearly gets tired of this feeling, and that makes him angry into taking action to not feel that anymore.

It's not as simple as picking another target when he kills one. It's that some times he prepares a scenario for after he resets, so that he can control what he's gonna feel and what he's gonna do.

==================

Leonard keeps reseting, and every time he does he goes back into wanting to hunt the murderer. As I said in other posts, Leonard maybe even asked Teddy at some point to lead him into targets. He knew the murderer was dead, but figured that after reseting he was gonna restart chasing him. He was unable to leave that loop. So, it's better for him to have a target, and somebody close to him leading him, than to wander around aimlessly. He maybe wanted Teddy to take care of him and help him live the life he could have.

He could have (and should have) written to always trust Teddy, but they neglected that. And he forgot that decision he made. Whatever their deal, Teddy was fooling him and at some point he got mad on it.

Teddy should have noticed he was not liking it. As I said, Leonard loses memory, but he keeps feelings. Teddy believed that everything was gonna be lost. He got bored of always saying the same things, so he started making jokes of Leonard. He saw that Leonard didn't like them, because they made him confused, but Teddy thought that soon later Leonard was just gonna forget it.

But, when Leonard faced the truth, and saw how sad his life was, and that Teddy was just gonna stick on him, he decided to solve both problems at once. He'd get a target and get rid of Teddy.

==========================

It's not that Leonard loves the chase more than the truth. It's that his life is limited to that. His wife survived, but every time he resets, specially after waking up, he remembers seeing her dying and gets mad and wants the murderer to be killed.

It's not shown what happens when he wakes, remembers seeing her dying, and then sees her alive. That's a big flaw in the movie. I know that he ignores her and decides to chase the aggressor. Maybe he chooses to ignore her and leave living with her for later, after the aggressor is dead. Maybe he even creates situations to believe she's dead so he can focus on the chase. Of course living with this is very hard for her.

Teddy feels pity for him, because nobody believes him, and decides to help. If he can't be arrested, let's kill him. Maybe by killing him Leonard will hold that memory and finish his obsession and finally live in piece with his wife.

But then he's killed and Leonard forgets it. And keeps resetting and wanting again to chase him. Somehow, not explained in the movie, that makes his wife so depressed to the point she kills herself by his hands.

After this flaw, Leonard is left with the aggressor avenged and his wife indeed dead. He has nothing more, and soon he's gonna reset and restart chasing the guy. So, he decides it's better to feed his chasing obsession, than try to control/stop it.

That's why I have the opinion that Leonard even asked Teddy to keep feeding him of targets. But, again, Teddy got bored and negligent, he made Leonard angry, and this feeling kept after the resets. He was angry and had little time to think. At that moment he felt fooled and manipulated. He wanted Teddy to stop doing it but saw no way of talking it out. And he was sad about his condition. So he just created a new target while at the same time took Teddy out of his way.

Of course, in a normal situation Teddy could have just talked Leonard out of that idea, or even fool him harder into other target. But Teddy kept neglecting, lying, making Leonard feel angry. That led him into a situation he couldn't get out of and ended up killed.

What the hell is Leonard going to do after Teddy is dead?

That's a big question that's left opened. Answering that question would be worth a full new movie. Leonard wouldn't miss Teddy for sure. He could just keep wandering, live day after day looking for clues, meet new characters as he did with Natalie, some of them willing to help without knowing his past, some willing to hurt him, some willing to use him.

Don't judge him so much. He had little time to think, much less to make a decision and not enough to take some action. Remember when Natalie tells him he was being used and he's unable to write it down. If he'd found a pen, he could pretty much write something to lead him into killing her. Of course this wouldn't fit because she's not a guy and he's not a cold blood murderer, he only wanna kill 1 person, but it's an example.

[–] the-author 8 years ago

It's not shown what happens when he wakes, remembers seeing her dying, and then sees her alive. That's a big flaw in the movie. I know that he ignores her and decides to chase the aggressor. Maybe he chooses to ignore her and leave living with her for later, after the aggressor is dead. Maybe he even creates situations to believe she's dead so he can focus on the chase. Of course living with this is very hard for her.

Teddy feels pity for him, because nobody believes him, and decides to help. If he can't be arrested, let's kill him. Maybe by killing him Leonard will hold that memory and finish his obsession and finally live in piece with his wife.

What are you trying to say?