The part I don't get is if Teddy was a real cop, and then why he had to stick around with Leonard while the case was already solved? He literally followed Leonard, didn't he? They should really send Leonard to hospital :P
shareIt's not actually a fact that he *did* follow Leonard all this time between then and now. Maybe he just found him again when he got the idea to use Leonard against Jimmy.
shareI think Teddy is a crooked cop that sees how he can really use Leonard to whatever advantage he wants. Of course this eventually backfires.
Downwards is the only way forwards.
^ This
No,NOT this...cause even this slimy douche is getting tired of the psychotic faker and spells things out for him,think about it;IF Leonard chose to believe Teddy,Teds huge sidebusiness would be gone forever...and allegedly,he´s only done it once,this time with Jimmy Grants. He gains zero by telling Lenny all he tells....
Sure,it was 100 000 for him,more then enough obviously....but Teddy didn´t think stuff through or rather Jonathan Nolan didn´t...since Teddy lays out...""the truth"...BEFORE he even has his money. So he dies cause of greed and want the cash Lenny doesn´t know is in the trunk of Jimmys car.
Not realistic behaviour,not for a dude who understands manipulation anyhow...It backfired NOT cause he finally spoke the truth but ironically just said his name. Leonard COULD have chose to accept this but does Teddy know him so well and want to spare Lennys concience the fact that they´ve killed John G seven times? It didn´t FEEL like he held this speech before but who knows,who cares?
WHY is there no note on the picture of psychoboy smiling with blood all over and why doesn´t Teddy ask that? Okay,so presumably,Teddy helped him once outta pity and assisted a second time outta greed,fine.
But WHY would Teddy ever think for a second that the right,righteous or satisfying event would "Stick",that it would kickstart or temporarily fix Leonards memory or injury? No human alive would....why does he say"So you lie to yourself to be happy etc...a few details you rather not remember?" And then leaves that whole aspect,except for the 12 pages missing,untouched? Why does the word faker pop up a bit too often? Yeah....you get which way I lean...based on the annoyingly limited amount of SOLID info we´re given?
But don´t overanalyze,Memento has superior acting,a great mimmick,awesome editing,the mood is full of dread,makes you argue facts vs memeory and how both can be distorted and alot more...but debating the film is in the end a closed loop. Too clever for its own good but the brothers want it that way...
NO MATTER what an audience member suggests,the Nolans just sit there,shaking their heads,going;"Nope,that´s not it." For fifteen fakkin´ YEARS!! Hang it up boys...it´s a clever script but you´re basically masturbating to your own condescending supremacy of knowledge over us,the fixated and always wrong audience. They made a film cinephiles will debate forever...but after seeing it about 13 times and hearing their thoughts,they both create the illusion that they themslves,the writers don´t know which is a great bulletproof vest for talented narcissists or they flat out go-No,that is incorrect.
You should love your own work but they get a kick out of having handed you a puzzle with two pieces missing and no matter how you try to solve it,they can always play unknowing while their egos are getting off big time. They have heard over 8000 theories,spit it out or never discuss it again...Maybe they realize their story only makes sense from ONE,pretty deranged angle but see no point in telling us? Or something like that....
Do you really think that John was going to split the money 50-50?
All that greed wouldn't allow that.
It is a matter of character.
Giving Leonard half of the money wouldn't fit with the 'Teddy' we've seen in the film.
He would simply take advantage of Leonard's memory.
this film is more about character than anything.
If John was a cop making 80g's plus, would he really think about taking Jimmy's shoes?
Again, character.
there isn't a direct answer in the film, which is what most viewers are use to.
So, they can't figure it out.
One of the reasons I love this film so much.
This and Primer.
Best unknown feature at IMDB.com
http://www.imdb.com/features/video/browse/
Yeah,you call the character Teddy by his birthname so maybe we shouldn´t debate this film but...yes,greed does that.I know a few like that. WHY be satisfied with a 100k if you can put on some italian shoes worth 700 bucks,what you´re just gonna ignore them cause you CAN buy a pair of your own even if the shoe fits...? No,not if you exist on a morally bankrupt level or greed is your motivation.You´re not implying Teddy is lying about the money and is doing all this out of another,either nobler or more sinister motive,are ya? Only a guy strapped for cash would steal a dead man´s shoes etc...?
IF this film is more about character then anything else then two of three characters sure are interesting...but nothing would mean anything. No real corrolation between the films premise,gimmick and theme and its resolution.I find other aspects tend to resonate deeper and are more fascinating,though Teddy and LEonard are two superbly written and wellacted characters.
No,it´s not that you can´t figure it all out,you can´t figure NOTHING out,all you can do is speculate til the wheels fall off...in a timeframe of maybe 4 days or so,we only KNOW what we see,which is like 2 hours tops of Leonards activities....so like in Inception,paint yourself into a corner and pass the ball to the audience in the last second and relieve yourself of answering the question you don´t want to give the answer to,since it´s either somewhat simple or you outsmarted yourself.
Not that Mementos ending or as a film on any level is as shallow and condescending as Inception but The Prestige to ME,that´s were they pulled off brains,mindfu and conviction perfectly....and still,Memento fascinates more,gets me hooked,warts and all.
You want to make it so that the ending REALLY doesn´t mean much...maybe it doesn´t but then nothing means squat. And then superb editing,a clever and very logical,meaningful and unique storytelling-style would just be for show(Fine,it puts us in Leonard´s shoes but we get that after scene one,I wish to believe the ending is there for and with a reason...besides showing us the hero becoming a villain).
No,maybe Teddy was full of it but as soon as the 200 000 was mentioned and Teddy said Leonard gets half,Lenny could just said-"Fine,let´s go out and split it up." Sure,there wouldn´t be much of a movie left but it could´ve happened...
I take it as the guy who lies through the whole film,not always,he does look out for Lenny for two reasons but lies alot Finally tells the truth,or atleast to 70%.
Both during the revelation and throughout the film,when he´s dishonest,he rarely looks Leonard in the eye. When he is honest and has nothing to hide or has truth to speak but with an agenda,he stares him down. WHAT does Teddy gain by lying,like stated? About the key points,John G´s already murdered,you would still do this if I wasn´t around...Sammy didn´t have a wife etc?
He could easily get his head blown off with that implication,that Leonard killed his own woman...and again,if Lenny chose to believe him.there´s no more drugdeals to profit from...which is what he sort of expected...Or? Yeah,maybe he ws telling the truth in the end whileplanning to take all 200 000,its alotta dough,screwit,gie him a chance to digest the hard truth,maybe Teddy thought....
If not,why waste breath,for his own concience sake? Then...he should´ve seen his own demise coming a mile away,if he suspected Leonard chose not to accept his version...if he is implying Lenny is faking and chose what to remember and not,he should know he is creating a volatile situation to say the least.
Problem is,Teddy contradicts himself slightly throughout the speech so when you pick one scenario and have it figured out,another line of his shoots down that whole theory and so on...Leonard is downright psychotic,hearing voices(Frankly,the timing for hearing SAMMY from the corpse is a bit too convenient a plot device but i´ve neer seen a perfect film so its cool.)
Lenny can´t tell the Sammy Jenkis story while having projected part of his own experience AND TOTALLY suffer from his condition cause How remember Any of it,right? For the truth aspect,this is the key part,not including your angle about it all being about character.
So either Teddy is full of it or Leonard is living in a state of what started out as faking and deloped into a sort of volontary psychosis,deciding which memories to hold on to and for how long...his last line"Now...where was i?"Is so creepy,like he calmly and calculating decides to hit the Reset button and start playing again.
The film doesn´t work without Teddy but as Joey Pants himself said and the brothers admitted,his presence throughout the film is slightly questionable, both in extent and intent and execution.
He only ONCE says-Let me take your car...so he can get the cash. The cash AND getting Lenny outta town are his motives? WHY is the second part important if Lenny can´t remember a thing,he won´t rat him out,if Lenny chose to accept Teddys truth,he wouldn´t be needed,HOW could Teddy know to 100% Lenny wasn´t gonna buy itif so,why speak..sure,he figures it out on their next meet but still,a weird gamble( John Gamble).
Not buy any of it except Teddys real name? Teddy knew this man or so I sense. He wouldn´t say his name was John G while hanging around when he stated"You don´t want the truth...ya make up your own truth." Then he should´ve known trouble was coming!!
Warns him about Natalie...Teddy is shady and manipulative...but not downright cruel and despicable like our protagonist Decides to be in the end.
You think Teddy took out the 12 pages...? Maybe. But then,to me,every line in the film becomes a guessing game and that´s not ingeneous or smart,just vague and arrogant under the disguise of much deeper,darker themes. Like psychoboy,I Want to believe actions and also WORDS have meaning,CAN have atleast,although I don´t know much to a certainty. Hope I didn´t waste your time too much,bro...
Hehe....sorry guy,I was high as shi! when I replied and my editor was nowhere to be found. Didn´t mean to bore ya....
shareAh, that explains it.
Best unknown feature at IMDB.com
http://www.imdb.com/features/video/browse/
Yes...that explains it. Since you wonder why Teddy would steal someones shoes or telling me the film is about three characters who all exist on the same morally bankrupt level(which is established after 13 minutes) and some other actually...beyond silly and naive observations and you adressed nothing.
But atleast something Was explained and as always,on Memento´s board...THAT is the point.To just talk around shi- and try to come off as intellectual or as ya grasp the content of the film. Have a great weekend watching Weekend at Bernie´s on repeat like 38 times...I love ya.
You still seem confused.
you wonder why Teddy would steal someones shoes
at least something was explained
i feel like I really shouldn´t respond since even if I made a Valid point you would want to shoot it down. But in your interpretation,it becomes nothing but a fascinating characterstudy. The gimmick,concept and relevance of time and themes are just unneccessary dressup and fleshing out a hollow story with no real dramatic heft to it.
WHERE did ANYONE say Teddy say he makes 100 000 a year? Cops don´t make that kinda cash. Did you interpret it as they were doing this sick thing Once a year? Like they had a signd contract. We have no idea.
Just cause they did it last year? According to you LIAR,Teddy...see,again,your argument collapses onitsel,yeah? Then you DO believe Teddy was gonna split the 200k,if Teddy only gets 100....
According to Teddy,John G had been clipped a year ago. So if they´ve killed 2 or 8 dudes innocent of the assault since then is one thing we don´t know. We do however know Teddy leaves himself pretty vulnerable and has ZERO to benefit from confessing or telling this fairytale...did his concience get to him and did he want to give Lenny a fair shot,accept what i tell you or not? MAybe.
A snitch would just by random,outta the blue,get knowledge of this amnesiaguy and wing it? No. Have you been around really greedy pricks,motivated by cash? The ones I knew,they would do this in a heartbeat. Definition of greed. WHY do ya think he checked the shoesize,to see if they fit? A bottomfeeding snitch would just grab the shoes and likely sell them,at the VERY LEAST grab them and later see if they fit,if not then sell them.
Teddy wanted to see if these fine shoes were a match,if so,he would likely wear them. In his mind,no one knows he´s involved in the hit,he thinks he is no trouble...and then he said his name.
His lies are not spoken while looking into Leonards eyes...throughout. when he talks about being a snitch,he AGAIN avoids eyecontact...but seconds later when it comes to who´s been calling Lenny,he says with a slightly sadistic glee,-"A cop. He thinks it´s funny,sliding enveopes under you door." Teddys words while looking Lenny dead in the eye compared to his transparent,awkard lies while looking away should tell you...certainly not all but something.
You adress nothing. I don´t think you get this film at all,not even on a characterfocused level,forget the themes of memory vs.fact,distorted memories, irreelance of time,selfdelusion,guilts power to break the psyche and reshape it etc...,which is what you view this story as. So....lets not repet ourelves.
Not sure where you are trying to go with this...but your view of what I think is off. Maybe I wasn't clear or you are not use to character study of a film.
a few points...
The gimmick,concept and relevance of time and themes are just unnecessary
WHERE did ANYONE say Teddy say he makes 100 000 a year?
you DO believe Teddy was gonna split the 200k
WHY do ya think he checked the shoe size,to see if they fit?
Teddy's words while looking Lenny dead in the eye compared to his transparent,awkward lies while looking away should tell you.
Just cause a drunk is intoxicated,that doesn´t by default make everything he says pure nonsense. I did reread,saw atleast 7-8 points that were valid and you could just let it be or adress something,the childish"Ah,that explains it." is just...you´re better then that. But fair enough,I will work on my spelling and construction of sentences.
If I ramble,then what do you do,guy? The exact opposite or worse,take my criticism against your interpretation of the story and turn it against me,cutting the sentence in half and not including the one that came before. YOU said,the film is more about character and a characterstudy then anything. To which I replied regarding that;"In YOUR interpretation,it becomes nothing but a fascinating characterstudy. The gimmick,concept and relevance of time and themes are just unneccessary dressup and fleshing out a hollow story with no real dramatic heft to it."
So of course did I never think the storytelling technique is without purpose or pointless or pretentious...if the film was merely or mostly a characterstudy,then I would concider it. I Might call it about perception of character and one self,about deconstruction and demythologizing of the classic revengeseeking noir character,delusion and distorted selfawareness...but with what we see being all we know to a certainty,if even then,I wouldn´t quite call it a characterstudy above else.
80k a year...and on any remote level would this income be keeping a shady and morally compromised person from taking advantage of another man to make 100 000 in one day without even breaking a sweat? Are you implying detectives and police officers in San Francisco are immune to corruption and greed? Only a poor person would commit such a "despicable" act?
I´ve known crooks and dealt with crooked cops,I do not see what´s so unlikely. IF Teddy(You keep calling him John,his birth name.Sure you get this film?) is honest and it only is the second murder since the real John G died...he might have a wife,three kids and a mortgage and is strapped for cash,you make it sound like 80 000 a year is something you can build a life with. It´s not.
Yes,correct. Teddy IS a bit stupid. He has to be,if he was smart AND manipulative and greedy,if Lennys illness is real,Lenny would be a sitting duck,a very easy victim. Like I already stated,he said,-"You don´t want the truth,ya make up your own truth.".. and followed that up with telling Lenny his real name is John Gammell?? So he is both a cynic,a realist and incredibly naive...he implies Lenny is faking or has faked,that his romantic quest is BS....and still said his name. If no one knew he was involved and it was a fact,then take the shoes. That´s why he checked the size...he later said and based alotta actions on the fact that he likely didn´t think Natalie knew who he was. Maybe he lied but he still was...
...Like I,the Nolans and Pantoliano said,it´s a great character but his presence to that extent isn´t logical or needed since if he believes Lenny´s condition,everytime he saw him,he should try to get the keys to the car...or if there´s 200 000 in the trunk,how hard is it to break in? Hire a street thug etc...
People DO lie in different ways but if Leonard has this condition,he can´t see what we see,the differences and nervous behaviour vs the confident eyecontact. IT likely means something...if you believe he´s a snitch,then do you believe Teddy is honest when he looks ashamed and awkward and is lying when he seems factual and almost confrontational? I think we´re supposed to read some human behaviour into the way these guys behave,even though it´s not a true story.
So do you think Anything Teddy says in the end is true? A fair question. Natalie recognizing Leonard driving Jimmy´s car and wearing his clothes from the get-go and still she needs help to get rid of Dodd and use Leonard to protect herself,although she just could tell Dodd the truth(Maybe she did but grief or money didn´t seem to be her chief concern)or try to take the cash atleast...that part is a bit vague,even by Mementostandrds which is saying something.
Since you say you GET the film. You can get Inception,Fight Club or Identity. This film,one about interpreting and filling in gaps with speculation regarding characters own false or atleast incomplete interpretation and perceptions of themselves and their motives,where so few things are written in stone...
I guess if you say that Not really getting it is part of it´s allure and strength,a puzzle we can play forever and see from many different views,where it´s hard to shoot down other peoples theories completely...then I would agree.
Not gonna try to convince or bully you in any way,guess I like certain films so much,I get carriied away...and I have to live with that. But I rather you rant and ramble for ages then pull a Lenny and distort my words cause you might lack the energy to read entire sentences,thanks.
Still not sure what you are getting at. I'm guessing you are one of those 'Teddy is a shoe-stealing cop who tells the truth...except, except. That's fine if that satisfies you. But, it doesn't fit what we see in the film itself in my opinion.(He has no reason to lie when he says he is a snitch. And his face appears to be telling the truth. His clothes and his car and his greed fits being a snitch rather than a real cop. Leonard is the only one in the film who believes he is a cop. the tattooo lady would be the perfect time to say,'shut up, I'm a cop.') but, whatever.
Not gonna or try to convince you in any way
IF Teddy(You keep calling him John,his birth name.Sure you get this film?)
You can get Inception,Fight Club or Identity
a puzzle we can play forever and see from many different views,where it´s hard to shoot down other peoples theories completely
I've watched the movie only once, so sorry if I say anything dumb.
First of all, "Teddy" wasn't an honest cop. If evidences pointed to a unique killer and Leonard was insisting that there was a second one, and Teddy believed in him, the right action was to investigate it and bring the second killer to jail. Not to hunt him down and kill him. If Teddy decided to do that, he was already corrupted.
Then ok, they succeeded and John G was dead. They found him, Teddy let Leonard kill him. Teddy became friend of Leonard and was happy for him. He believed Leonard would stick that memory and get free from his obsession.
It didn't. Leonard forgot it, and kept hunting for the person he had already killed. He kept investigating, finding new "clues". Leonard's situation is very troublesome. He hardly believes in things without knowing why or even what they are. He's always confused becouse he doesn't remember where they came from, but he tried to hide his confusion and pretend he's fine.
Teddy then decided to take advantage on that. He's get Leonard to kill people that He was unable to arrest, while also give Leonard a purpose.
=======
I personally believe that his wife survived and killed herself. I think Leonard guiltied Sammy, but he was indeed ill and his wife made him kill her.
Leonard's last memory was seeing his wife seeming to be dying. He believed she was dead and was always confused when he'd face her and see her alive. It must be hard to love somebody and that person keep saying you're dead. Even after John G was dead, Leonard kept insisting she was dead and he needed to find the murderer. Maybe, Teddy couldn't give John G the punishment Leonard desired just because he wasn't a murderer, just an aggressor.
She then inspured on Sammy's wife and killed herself.
Leonard, seeing what happened, decided to lie to himself, to keep surviving. Maybe at some point he even agreed to Teddy in becoming a professional killer, maybe even asked Teddy to provide him clues into criminals for him to kill.
But then, at the last time, Leonard figured out he was on the wrong guy. Teddy explained everything to him believing that Leonard would forget. But Leonard decided to lie to himself again. He took the dead guy's car and clouthes, and noted that he should kill Teddy. Next time he just followed the note without knowing why - as always - and killed Teddy.
Teddy's mistake was to underestimate Leonard's notes and the possibilities of him adding lies to them. Leonard was becoming annoyed of being used. But Teddy just ignored those signs, believing Leonard would just forget it and restart following the clues.
Not bad, except
his wife survived and killed herself
Well that's something sad to say.
She'd not just leave him and restart her life. It doesn't matter if she's portrayed by a pretty or ugly actress.
Anyway she chose to die over live with him like that or do as you say.
I wish it was shown some scenes of how Leonard treated his wife everyday when he discovered she hadn't died. Why didn't he just let the attacker go and moved on with her?
she chose to die over live with him like that or do as you say.
She'd not just leave him and restart her life. It doesn't matter if she's portrayed by a pretty or ugly actress.
Sammy's wife did that.
Leonard: I was wrong. That's the whole point. See, Sammy's wife came to me...
Teddy: Sammy didn't have a wife. It was your wife who had diabetes.
Yes, I remember that. If indeed Sammy didn't have a wife at all, and all Leonard's memories of her are for real from his own wife, than that's very astonishing.
As I just said in another post, Leonard was unable to retain memory even from killing the aggressor. But somehow he was able to hold memory of his wife making him kill herself. By conditioning and repetition, by telling the story over and over again, he projected his wife's death into creating a wife for Sammy and creating a memory of her doing what his wife did!
That leads Leonard to the same assumption he had about Sammy. If Leonard would be unable to hold new memories, how did he change his memory of Sammy and added his wife's death to it?
Maybe he's unable to hold memories, but it was so emotionally intense to see her dying and figure he forgot he had already given the medicine and she made him do it twice, and saw he killed her... It was so intense that his brain managed to hold it somehow?
I mean, we hold stronger memories for events that touch us emotionally. Maybe watching his wife die and seeing he had killed her by her making him so, that the strong emotions created in this event made this memory hold, maybe using other brain cells than the injured ones. It wasn't just a memory, it was a trauma he was living.
But, being him injured, instead of holding it as a new memory, "my wife survived the aggression but my illness led her into making me kill her", the memory was hold as a distortion of a memory he already had, "Sammy had the same illness I have, and he had a wife that couldn't keep his condition and made him kill herself".
Very very sad. Sorry for my bad english.
As I understand (still, after watching a few more times), Sammy's wife didn't kill herself. It was Leonard's wife that did, and he just infused his own situation into Sammy.
If I'm not wrong, Sammy didn't even have a wife at all. I'm gonna watch that part in an hour and make sure.
If I'm right, that's very interesting, because somehow Leonard was able to retain a memory by conditioning himself. He wasn't able to retain killing the aggressor, but was able to retain her suicide!
I understand your point that Sammy's condition was much worse. They were older and she'd have more trouble finding another husband. At that age, ppl live most of their life married, so it's very hard.
Leonard's wife was much easier. Not that it's easy for her to leave him and move on her life, but easier than Sammy's. Still, maybe she wasn't able to do that, to leave him, to watch or even just know him living like that. She was unable to move and leave him, and was unable to remain like that. For sure she was depressed, if she decided to suicide. When we're depressed, bad things seem WAY bigger than they are, we feel we're locked with no way for freedom, to the point that death seems the only way out and better than living on the situation we are.
I've watched the movie a few more times.
I agree with most of what I said. The attack, as sad as it was, could be survived and the couple move on their lives. But every time Leonard lost his memory and restarted, he went back into believing she was dead and he had to kill the murderer.
Leonard is paranoid by nature. Some people could just fall in depression or just lament, but he is obsessed in finding the murderer.
I think the movie flawed in not showing the situations when Leonard would confront his wife. He could just accept the fact that she survived, she explain to him the attacker was dead, and he move his life. Somehow, now shown on the movie, he made her very very sad, to the point she decided to die, as he probably kept saying she was.
Teddy believed in him, but knew that a sick man's word would never work for arresting the guy. He just decided to help Leonard into killing him. As a cop, he may have many cases of criminals he's unable to arrest. Even cases when he arrest and they are freed by judges.
There's no clue on the movie, but I still believe that at some point Leonard made agreement or even asked Teddy to do this work. At some of the cases that Leonard knew the aggressor was dead, and figured he'd keep "waking up" to again chase him, he saw that he had no escape. He'd either kill himself before forgetting, or wander aimlessly chasing nobody, or find purpose for his life by chasing criminals that can't be arrested. This seems a very plausible choise to be done for somebody in his condition and his ability to hunt and kill.
Teddy's error was indeed underestimate Leonard's condition. It's of course boring to be friend of somebody that always forgets who you are, and is always not trusting you. It's everything ok and chill for you, and he keeps forgetting your agreement and confused wanting to know what's happening.
Teddy got bored and kept fooling Leonard. Sometimes he didn't explain again the obvious, sometimes he just lied to make fun of Leonard.
But Leonard isn't just a dumbo that never knows what's happening. He lives by sessions, periods of time where he remembers what happened just a few minutes before. During these short times he's able to rationalize, judge, decide and take actions. Teddy fooled with him trusting that a few minutes later he'd just forget everything, but instead of that Leonard saw he was being fooled and decided he didn't want that anymore, and manipulate himself into killing Teddy.
Leonard would confront his wife. He could just accept the fact that she survived, she explain to him the attacker was dead, and he move his life. Somehow, now shown on the movie, he made her very very sad, to the point she decided to die, as he probably kept saying she was.
Teddy wanted Leonard to kill Jimmy so Teddy could take the $200,000 in the back of Jimmy's Jaguar. The entire movie Teddy is always trying to trick Leonard into giving Teddy the keys to the Jaguar.
shareA smart person would have gotten the money easily.
Best unknown feature at IMDB.com
http://www.imdb.com/features/video/browse/
I think Teddy wanted the money but he also wanted to destroy the car since people seeing it around with Lenny driving it would know that something happened to Jimmy.
If Teddy was smart he would've tased Lenny or beaten him unconscious, taken the keys and then left with the Jag.
Because Teddy discovered he could manipulate Lenoard to his own advantage.
"I really wish Gia and Claire had became Tanner" - Honeybeefine