Lt Peacock


Recently saw this pic on Facebook and started thinking about Peacock (second from right). He wasn't in the series much but Webster writes a lot about him. Reading Parachute Infantry, if there is one officer that is the 'bad guy', it certainly is Peacock and not Dike.

https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/13730934_945681128895013_871833473558204416_o.jpg

Washington Racists

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Well, Webster certainly hated him, no question there, and based on Webster's stories, he was no prize. It did always strike me as curious that the series took it so easy on him, considering that Ambrose lifted so much of his book from Webster's writings. And especially when it unfairly slighted others, such as Ed Shames, Roy Cobb, and even Webster himself to a degree.

The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it.

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I don't know why Ambrose did all that. He was strange, although Winters seemed to like him.

Washington Racists

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As a writer, certainly he seemed to have gotten some things wrong and not done the amount of research you would expect. I mean, after the series came out it was discovered that Joe Liebgott wasn't actually Jewish. It was Liebgott's son who revealed that. Did Ambrose not contact Liebgott's family while researching his book? In the series I believe they just took artistic license with Liebgott; to the filmmakers' knowledge he had been Jewish so they made him definitively so. But the mistake wouldn't have been made had Ambrose done proper research in the first place. Webster also described Liebgott as Jewish, but his book was a memoir while Ambrose's was supposed to be a factual account, so I think it's much more forgivable.

The further a society drifts from the truth, the more it will hate those that speak it.

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If you read Babe Heffron's memoir ("Brothers in Battle, Best of Friends"), you'll discover that Webster wasn't the only one who hated Peacock.

But who knows? He might have hated Dike just as much if he hadn't been in hospitals and replacement depots from late '44 to early '45; missing out on Bastogne also meant Webster missed out on Dike.

And while there's no question the series makes Peacock look like a clueless jerk, Dike really comes under fire (so to speak) because he was the company's leader; his incompetence resulted in a higher number of casualties for Easy.

So as irritating and exasperating as Peacock was, he wasn't as disastrous for the company as Dike. In the "bad guy" stakes, Peacock will always be in Dike's shadow.

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Yes, about Dike being the "worst" bad guy, I'm still not convinced. There's just too much Ambrose's obfuscation there. Yes, as you said before and I believe you although I haven't yet read all of the E company memoires, many of the E company members had negative things to say about Dike.

However, Webster was the first one and his view is the one that IMHO is the 'freshest'. His journalistic skill is also undeniable. So I value his book the highest. He has A LOT of negative stuff to say about Peacock, like pure hatred - level stuff, and Webby was pretty laid back guy. Yes, he missed out on Dike who got medals for bravery for saving soldiers in Holland, was possibly wounded in that fateful assault, etc. So there is 'fog of war' there.

But don't worry, I won't go "Buddy Love" on you about this. You might be right. It's just that there is too much unclarity at play to say for sure one way or the other. Maybe one day, say, Nixon's unpublished diary about the war years will be discored and we'll finally find out the 'truth'.

Washington Racists

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Yeah, it's the memoirs and/or biographies of Dick Winters, Shifty Powers, Ed Shames, Don Malarkey and Babe Heffron that really make it clear how Dike's incompetence as a commander resulted in Easy Company soldiers being killed.

I'm not doubting how much Webster hated Peacock; I've read "Parachute Infantry" twice, and he couldn't have made his feelings clearer. It's just that the other veterans had experience of BOTH Dike and Peacock, while Webster only knew Peacock. And they all felt Dike was worse for Easy, as he had the responsibility of leading the company - something Peacock never did (he was only in charge of a platoon).

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Just to reiterate, Ambrose got it wrong concerning Webster (who's book he basically ripped off among other works without doing much proper historical research), Cobb, Shames, Blithe (very seriously), etc. The series is based on Ambrose's book, not the words of the individual soldiers you mention. The guilt lies on Ambrose and Spielberg/Hanks.

Washington Racists

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First, let's look at what you wrote in your original post -

He (Peacock) wasn't in the series much but Webster writes a lot about him. Reading Parachute Infantry, if there is one officer that is the 'bad guy', it certainly is Peacock and not Dike.

Now, if your point was to establish that Peacock was the bad guy and not Dike, then we can't use Webster as a source. And the reason for this couldn't be more obvious: Webster never served under Dike and therefore had no knowledge of him. Webster can (and does) tell us a great deal about Peacock, but in this particular situation that's all he can do; he can't tell us a thing about Dike because he never met him.

On the other hand, the individual soldiers I mentioned CAN make a comparison between Dike and Peacock, because of the experience they had serving with both officers.

As for Ambrose, I think everyone is aware he had problems with event chronology and fact-checking. But while HBO used his book as the primary source for its adaptation, it wasn't their ONLY source. For example, interviews with Don Malarkey definitely influenced the show's portrayal of both David Webster, and also the "we salute the rank, not the man" incident involving Winters and Sobel. And as the show was a dramatic work, there was (not surprisingly) dramatic invention and compression of historical events.

And facts be known, Ambrose actually got Webster right in his book; it was the miniseries that got him wrong (at least in the later episodes). Same goes with Cobb. And while Ambrose looked on Webster's unpublished "Parachute Infantry" manuscript as a veritable gold mine of reference material, he also relied heavily on interviews he conducted with Dick Winters, Carwood Lipton, Harry Welsh, Joe Toye, Walter "Smokey" Gordon, Shifty Powers, Bill Guarnere and Babe Heffron (among others) while doing research for "Band of Brothers." These were the veterans who could fill in the blanks about the Battle of the Bulge and Norman Dike - aspects of the company's history that Webster, for all his intellectual prowess and writing skill, was unable to address.

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Yes I know the other guys were involved with Ambrose and the series. However they didn't write the script or the book. Ambrose wrote the book and HBO/however wrote the script and are therefore responsible. Webster is IMO the 'main source' and I feel sad that his book wasn't used as the main source for the series. I don't care about a 'dramatic' treatment with 'good and bad guys' etc. hollywood bs, I want the facts to be correct.

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Webster is IMO the 'main source' and I feel sad that his book wasn't used as the main source for the series. I don't care about a 'dramatic' treatment with 'good and bad guys' etc. hollywood bs, I want the facts to be correct.



I don't see how Webster's book could have been the main source for the miniseries. He wasn't a member of Easy Company until Operation Market Garden (so he didn't take part in Easy's D-Day jump), and he completely missed out on Bastogne, Foy and the Battle of the Bulge.

Besides, using Webster's book as the main source would result in a show primarily about one soldier, and what made "Band of Brothers" unique was its portrayal of an entire company; a "company of heroes," as Mike Ranney described it.

I'd prefer it if dramatic works stuck to the facts, but I'm enough of a realist to know the entertainment industry rarely works that way. And when you examine other films based on real people and/or events ("Bridge on the River Kwai," "Lawrence of Arabia," "Braveheart" and "A Beautiful Mind"), "Band of Brothers" looks relatively factual in comparison.

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To return to this old discussion for a couple of points. Well if the series had been based on Webster's book then yes, it would have been different. More factual and thus, IMHO, better.

The series doesn't cover nearly all members of E co. In the link below is a link of all the E co. members. Many not shown in the series.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E_Company,_506th_Infantry_Regiment_(United_States)

I think the Germans raised the bar when it comes to realism with movies like The Downfall etc.

Washington Racists

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To return to this old discussion for a couple of points. Well if the series had been based on Webster's book then yes, it would have been different. More factual and thus, IMHO, better.



But there would also be nothing about Captain Sobel, or the NCO rebellion against him, or disabling the 105s at Brecourt Manor on D-Day, or anything about the Battle of the Bulge. Don't get me wrong; a miniseries focusing on Webster would be terrific, but removing Easy's experiences at Brecourt Manor and Bastogne wouldn't make for a better show.

And of course, the filmmakers themselves have said they could have used a different set of Easy Company soldiers, or the same ones while examining (predominantly) different events, and still have come up with a 10-part miniseries. And there's no question that the show was criticized by a number of Easy Company vets for not including enough about 3rd Platoon.

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Well, Speirs was clearly the worst, shooting prisoners and stealing silver.
Unless you were going into battle, then you wanted him leading the way, on your side.

I laughed out loud when they said what he was doing after the war (running a prison!)

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