Is the Bible...

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YES! It's been so long since I've seen one of these, and I'm so much more educated since the last one, I expect much more fun here:

tdmhcbbdschp, the only contradiction is the one our finite, fragile minds conjures up. God is eternal. He didn't just show up one day and create everything.

Time is a man-made concept. Just because we can't comprehend concepts like "forever" and "eternal" doesn't mean they don't exist. We think all things had to have a beginning, but that's only because our minds are linked into thinking along the lines of "time". God is timeless.

This all goes by the assumption that there is a god. Remove this assumption and you have bupkiss.
But let's go by this assumption anyway.
Yes, he knew that everything that would exist would exist. He knew the destiny of everything and everyone when he created it because he was observing it all at once, in every moment of his momentless, timeless eternity. So...basically, everything is preordained, if not built for us then known by a being higher than ourselves. So what is it when he interacts with us? He enters time and changes things even though he already knows they were going to happen, since, in his eyes, they already happened. In other words, God comes in and tells Noah to build an ark, not because mankind has been sinning, has been made to sin, or that there's going to be a flood, but because God has to come in and build an ark BECAUSE that is what God has to do, since he is outside of time, and cannot be influenced by it (imagine being shot by a two dimensional bullet. How would it kill you if it has no depth? It would have no place on a Z axis whatsoever, because there would be no Z axis at all, as far as it was concerned).
In effect, God's existence out of time negates his ability to be all powerful. He is, as Dr. Manhattan would put it, "simply a puppet that can see the strings".

The Bible is not outdated and if you spent any time reading it, you'd see that (and I challenge you to do just that. Read the Bible with an open mind.) For instance, Psalms 103:12 tells us that God has removed our sins as far from us as the east is from the west. Back when that was written, that distance wouldn't have been very far, especially if, as they thought, the world was flat. But God knew that the world is round and just as you can't measure how far the east is from the west, you can't measure how far God has removed the sins from those who believe in Him. God knew that it was a greater distance than those early writers even realized when He inspired them to write that passage.

If the world was flat, then East and West would have been at opposite ends of the "planet". Since it isn't, East and West meet on the other side of the globe in one big long line from top to bottom.
What use is telling people of the time something they aren't going to understand, anyway? It's a colossal waste, and it wouldn't exactly be a stretch to write down: "PS The world is spherical". If something requires future knowledge to be interpreted correctly, then it is worthless until that future knowledge is acquired. However, there is no way of knowing WHEN that knowledge will be acquired, even when it is. As a result, no truth can be inferred from statements like this, as everything creates uncertainty, and if you have faith that they are true (i.e. without proof, knowledge, truly full understanding) then you're a moron, because that's exactly the mindset people were in when they didn't have the knowledge that you have.

As for evolution, one has only to study human anatomy and physiology to see that there is no way such intricate body systems which require such precise cooperation with other body systems to function could possibly have just been randomly formed. These body systems are well thought out and well executed with a design that man, with all of his computers and equipment, is unable to duplicate, nor can man give that spark of life that is necessary for all living things.

No, we did not evolve from a puddle of goo or anything else for that matter. Nor did we spring from apes. Science itself dictates that one organism does not turn into something entirely different outside of it's nature. We are what our DNA dictates that we are, and we will never become something other than that, no matter how many millenia go by. (And if we did evolve from apes, then why didn't all of the apes evolve? Why are there still apes?)

To me, it's a further stretch of credulity to believe evolution than to believe that a timeless God created everything.

I suggest you and people like you give man a chance and stop getting in his way. We'll best god soon enough, I guarantee it.

As for evolution indeed. You seem to have no idea what evolution is, do you? By your interpretation, I could infer that you believe evolution to mean a bunch of rocks coming together in the specific order that they form a fully functional human being. By contrast, this is creationism without the creator; something so far removed from evolution it's unbelievable that anyone could so misconstrue the facts.
Evolution is the process by which random changes at a genetic level produce variation in a species. It is the elimination of the weak from the strong, and the cultivation of those best suited to their environments and most likely to go on to reproduce to create a second generation. You, sir, are the result of countless billions of deaths, murders, births, that have existed since the first cells fought it out in the primordial soup. As am I. As is every living creature on this planet, if not in existence. We are the survivors of a battle for supremacy that will end only when everything is dead and gone. How that is anything less than epic and amazing, I don't know, and how anyone can tell me a fairytale about a magical man in the sky is more amazing than that is something I doubt I'll ever be able to understand.

But I'm straying from the point.

Random mutations create differences. If these random mutations are better than the others, then they are selected for by natural selection in an absolutely non-random process. They are cultivated and then expanded and allowed to spread and continue. This you cannot compare to a bridge or a car or anything of the sort because they do not reproduce; living things do, and reproduction is a fundamental tenant of evolution.
And you are absolutely right, we do not change from one species into another. Dogs came from dogs, which came from dogs, etcetera etcetera. However, wolves turned into wolves which turned into wolves, and somewhere in the middle of all that, the two crossed over, but finding where is both difficult and superfluous. Think of it like a child growing up. At which point does a baby cease to be a baby and become a toddler? How old is it? How many months? Days? Hours? Minutes? Seconds? It's impossible. The baby doesn't just suddenly become a toddler (this isn't the Sims, after all), but the toddler comes from the baby all the same.
Staying with the baby theme, however, you mention that the DNA defines what we are, and that's true. If the DNA changes, usually cancer is produced or something like that, and we don't miraculously change species. The DNA changes during the time it's most vulnerable to change; during conception; at the start of everything. The following everything then determines whether the changes were of benefit. If so, then it gets to breed and pass the benefits on. If not, the creature dies before it can reproduce. Simple. If evolution occured during a creature's lifetime, then there would be too much chaos and variation for the creature itself, as well as the species, to even exist.

Ahh, the timeless "if apes evolved, why are there still apes?" well, for the same exact reason why there are still Irish people if there are lots of Irish people in America.
Yet the apes DID evolve (for the record, we ARE apes. Hell, we're monkeys, in a liberal use of the term); what we see today we did not evolve FROM, we simply evolved from THEIR ANCESTORS. What you see around you is the result of that eternal battle I mentioned earlier; these are the creatures that have been selected for due to their being best suited to their environment. It's the reason crocodiles are still around, and they've been here for millions of years (although there are some adaptations they've gained since they first came into being in that blurry line all those countless generations ago) simply because there's nothing here yet that's been able to kick their scaly butts from the face of existence.

Also, if there is no God, why do atheist even bother protesting His existence? I don't go around denying the previously mentioned puffalumps. I don't give them another thought because there is no such thing. So if there is no God, then why bother even denying him. Me thinks atheists protest too much!

Yes, well, youthinks what youlikes, but those of us who protest him do so for multiple reasons. One is to basically contribute even in some small way to getting rid of these awful notions that inhibit human progress, such as young earth creationism, abstinence education, the rights of an undeveloped embryo over a fully grown woman and so on. Another is to basically go on a purely selfish ego trip and have fun with all you idiots who actually believe the garbage in that bronze-age self-help book by running you into the ground with no regards to the feelings of people who think it's fair that we burn in hell for all eternity for not agreeing with them. I mean, seriously, in that latter part, who's the real jerk? I mean you even expressed it at the end of your post (I'll get there by the end of this); I could insult you, debase you and be all kinds of jerk to you, but would that compare to you believing that eternal damnation (even your, and I quote, "finite, fragile" mind can comprehend that eternity is a very, very long time) is a suitable punishment for believing differently to you.

In addition, if God does not exist, then why does 90% of the population of the earth feel the need to worship God, in whatever form they see Him in? What is this void that is there in the soul of man that cries out for a deity to fill it? Even remote tribes who have no contact with other cultures or tribes feel the need to worship God. If there were no God, shouldn't we not even know that we need Him? We don't need a puffalump or want to worship one because there is no such thing. Yet, we need God. Our hearts long to commune with Him because He is the one who gives us life. It is in Him that we live, we move, we have our being.

90% of the population of earth worship him because they're stupid. Sad, but true. The majority of people on the planet are morons, just like the majority of the people on this planet are poor. Either get used to it or start trying to fix it.
If a puffalump shared the same purpose as a god, I'm sure you'd feel a need to worship it. Me, I'd rather have faith in myself than something I can't even prove exists. Besides, by his own account, God's happily killed over 2 million people. Like I'd want to have a heartfelt commune with him.
But that whole paragraph is basically trash. I don't need god. I don't want god. I would sooner live for myself, and not for anything that refuses to exist until I am willing to convince myself that it does.

As my pastor used to say, I'd rather live my life as if there is a God and die and find out that there isn't, then to live as if there isn't a God, and die and find out that there is.

If I believe in God all of my life, and die and find out that I'm wrong, I haven't lost anything, but if you die and find out that there is a God and you were wrong, you have lost everything.

Have we? We'll have lived our lives for what we want, and won't have wasted a second of it in worship of some divine deity for which we have no proof. We'll have lived our lives to the full and you'll have wasted your one chance at existence because you were too much of a pussy to say "this God guy is a jagoff. He doesn't have any right to tell me what I have to do until he can at least prove to me that he exists". I for one am not going to waste my chance at life hoping what comes after it is even better when there's no reason to believe that there will even BE anything after it.

And if there is a god? Well, all the interesting people are in hell. Only dull, brainless nitwits and terrorists go to heaven, after all. But I will have died believing what I believe, and if God does indeed exist outside time, as you said, it will be his fault and not mine that I end up in hell, as I so surely will. And I will end up there not because I was evil or weak, but because I was moral and strong enough not to bow down to him.

I'll be praying that doesn't happen.

Well, you know what they say:

"Nothing fails like prayer."


---sig---
...and you will look down on the almighty and tell him "no".

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all you religious types sound like pissed off trekkies.
if there is a God, i think he'll understand my godlessness.

have a nice day

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Science itself dictates that one organism does not turn into something entirely different outside of it's nature. We are what our DNA dictates that we are, and we will never become something other than that, no matter how many millenia go by.

Wow. You really have no idea what you're talking about, do you? First of all, scientists don't really believe that man evolved from the ape, they believe that both man and ape evolved in two different directions from the same source. If we'll never change, how do you explain all the skeletons from our predecessors? Just hoaxes, right? How do you explain then how 5000 new races of dogs could have emerged in only the last 10 000 years? They look pretty different from each other, don't you think? Or for example all the skeletons found from other species, showing us step by step by step how they evolved for millions of years? I believe in god too but I'm not an ignorant prick who denies something as obvious as evolution. I didn't even think there were people out there who still thinks like you. If god created man we sure have evolved since then and we're still evolving, very rapidly for only the last 300 years actually.

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Thank you! There's so many people here on the Mission to Mars board that are outright saying "God's not real," "God's stupid," "religion is a farce," etc. This is a level of intolerance that borders on radicalism, although I guarantee you 99% of these people wouldn't have the gall to say such things in public.

I've been a Christian my whole life, but as a pastor I know once said "I don't preach religion, I preach faith." If people want to use the Crusades or the Inquisition as excuses not to believe in God, then they should remember that HUMANS carried out such events using religion as a cover for earthly motives, not because God told them to. Maybe people don't want to believe in God or the Bible because it's a book written hundreds of years ago by different people in different times in a different language, but doesn't it say something that all of these people had one belief though to even form the Bible despite such differences? That despite the different times and people who wrote the Bible there aren't glaring contradictions?

Look outside Christianity, all major religions, whether it be Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, etc. all have holy writings and such that are hundreds of years old. As you said about faith, if there is no God than why does it seem like 99% of humans claim there is one (regardless of who they think God is), it's almost like humans HAVE to believe in something. Personally, I think this hatred of religion isn't even based on facts or science, its because there are things God doesn't want people to do, and in today's society people want to do these things (sex, drunkenness, etc.) without consequence. Thus, people don't believe in God and that's why atheists get so militant about it. As the same pastor once said, "You wouldn't get so angry at somebody if you didn't believe he was real."

I don't personally believe in evolution wholesale. I mean, I believe that if a species of bird is native to Site A, and is discovered in Site B, then I have no problem believing that the bird in Site B may have changed to suit his environment. However, I don't believe that everything (humans, apes, lizards, fish, cats, etc.) all stem from the same "tree." If anything, the evidence I've seen towards evolution only strengthens my belief in a God. For example, in science class my teacher showed how most creatures on Earth have the same bone or body structure, something like that. There was an image of a human's hand skeleton, and a picture of a whale's fin skeleton showing a similar five-finger wrist shape. My thinking is how can all these species on Earth be so similar on a small scale yet so different if they evolved from the same source? Wouldn't it make more sense that God created everything similarly, with humans in His image?

Besides, atheists claim that they don't believe in God, yet they're always quick to jump on the "ancient aliens" theory. I believe its possible aliens are out there, but why would aliens go ahead and intentionally seed life on Earth, and then not visit us? At all? Why wouldn't they have more of a hand in our development? And don't say the government is "covering it up." If aliens created an entire race, they would be helping the 1% of one government or worldwide government. Besides, don't you think they'd want credit? Or at least let us know of their existence?

Heck, atheists almost want to believe in religious values. If you look at Mission to Mars, 2001: A Space Odyssey and Prometheus (movies I'm able to enjoy as a science fiction fan), they all revolve around a super race that creates humans, disappears, and then leaves something behind in order to lead humans back to them. Usually there is also a quest for immortality, such as in MtM where Gary Sinise is sent to meet the Martians, in 2001:ASO where he becomes a Star Child, and in Prometheus where Peter Weyland wants to live forever. If there are creatures out there who create us to have natural lifespans, then why do atheists insist that these beings must have a way to live forever?

If we are created by aliens (which I don't believe), it would have to be a Prometheus scenario where the Engineers create us, and then for whatever reason hate us and try to destroy us. Of course, if the aliens who create us do come to hate us, there is no reason they couldn't destroy us. God did lose faith and destroyed civilization with a Flood, and Humanity survived only because God commissioned the Ark. There are other sources to corroborate the Great Flood, one example (I could be wrong) was the Sumerians who also believed in the event. Obviously if we were created by aliens they don't care about us. Besides, the whole reason atheists want to live forever in these films and other similar media is because atheists are afraid of what happens after we die. Even though atheists scoff and ridicule the idea of an old man in the sky with a heaven up in the clouds, atheists have that little voice in their head (as most people do I assume) that makes them wonder what happens after death. For a Christian, there is Heaven and Hell. However, even if an atheist believes there is nothing, there is the chance there is a God, and if so then they would go to Hell. Thus, they cannot die.

I'm not trying to force anyone to adopt Christianity or a religion, but I am tired of getting on boards and seeing almost every other person post the same "life would be better without religion" crap. If we're looking at an issue as big as the origin of Humanity, wouldn't it be fair to consider ALL the theories instead of adopting one and saying "screw religion?"


Men go to jail. DOGS GET PUT DOWN.

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