So was John gay or bi?
If I recall, he never once said that he wasn't attracted to that girl he was seeing.
shareNot directly, but from the way he acted it was clear that he was not in love with her but with Steven.
John: Listen... if you tell anyone, it's off. If anyone even starts to suspect, it's off!
Steven: [eagerly] It's on then is it?
John: Of course it's on. I... I like you a lot.
Steven: What about Christina?
John: No contest, you're a better kisser!
Steven: Promise?
John: Promise
And I think he actually said something to the effect that Christina was just a beard when Steven confronted him after John had spent the day with Christina.
Bottom line: I'd say John is gay.
Thanks, that's been bothering me for some time. Some people would call it a cop out if John went on to lead a semi-comfortable heterosexual life because he likes women as much as he likes men. They'd think it would reduce his suffering.
shareWell, I'd say he's Gay too, but when they were both standing in the rain after John's return from the date with Christina he says he really likes her but he LOVES Stephen.
But I'm not sure what you mean when you say "They'd think it would reduce his suffering." John could very well go on to lead a semi comfortable heterosexual life and it may become unbearable at a future point. I met a lot of Gay men (at the local Gay community center) in their late 50's, 60's and 70's who were married, kids, grandkids the whole 9 yards. Many married because they weren't sure, thought it was a passing phase, needed a wife/kids for career advancement, whatever. So that is why I ask what you mean. Thanks
I meant if John actually is completely gay, and he was seeing that girl as a front, then a life of pretending to be something he isn't would be tormenting. If he's geniunely bi, then living a "normal life" wouldn't be nearly as bad. I'd liken it to having to chose between two foods you like as opposed to having to eat food you don't like out of politeness.
shareOK got it. The way you phrased it seemed a bit confusing or maybe I'm having trouble comprehending lately! Who knows! Thanks.
Speaking only for myself, I get the situation; I had girlfriends but nothing sexual - I could see myself married with kids but I never pursued it because it would be unfair to the woman. I always said it that way and a very good (Gay) friend once said "it wouldn't be fair to me either." In any event very little happened sexually with the women, but then I wasn't a man whore with guys either. I've been hoping to fall in love, and it has only happened twice. So I can really relate when John says " I like Christina but I love you, Stephen".
Thanks for the insight. I'm straight, and I never did the whole "love" thing anyway, so I never really related to Steve or John but I really enjoyed this movie.
shareGoodness - I'm lost again - I don't get what you wrote: [....and I never did the whole "love" thing anyway....]
Do you mean you can't understand that two guys could genuinely love each other
or that you've never been in love yourself
or you could never even imagine yourself in love with a guy (like John & Steven loved each other?)
Just for conversation, you know, I've done a lot of reading and I'm older too (50) and it seems to me that there is a lot of social pressures to conform and be the "same". I'm not suggesting for one minute that everyone could be Gay or Bi. But I do think a lot of people put same sex thoughts on hold because of such negative consequences - Look at how the boys pick on Steven when he goes to school - slapping him, calling him names, throwing his book bag on the roof. Making him lie about being Gay. Seems to me if something is so HORRIBLE (Gay sex) society wouldn't "need" to make the males constantly repudiate the feminine - (John told Kevin to "leave the girlies alone") History & anthropology show that many other societies over the centuries and even now have some sort of same sex puberty initiations etc. So I think Western culture is obssesed with homosexuality. I just read an article where South Americans generally don't think about race or sexuality in the terms we do, especially in the U.S.
I mean I didn't really bother with relationships and all that stuff when I was at school. I had no patience for it. I couldn't really relate to the two main characters, if anything, I identified with Steven's friend, Mark, but these guys were the same age as I was in '98, so I like the familiar feel of the movie, if that makes sense. I grew up in London, not Basingstoke, but it's a similar enough environment.
shareWell I don't know why this movie has fascinated me to watch it so much lately, but I watched it for the fourth time in the last two weeks and I can say that John is definitely Gay.
1. He said he "liked" Christina but "loved" Stephen.
2. He said Stephen was the better kisser.
3. He mentioned getting aroused on the beach in Cornwall with another bloke(meanwhile never saying anything about girls except that he wanted the other guys to see him with "the most beautiful girl in town.")
4. He wanted Stephen to come and live with him (and his parents to move somewhere else.)
5. He repeatedly asked for more chances to prove he loved Stephen
Remember this is a guy who is coming from a wealthy family; he knew exactly what he wanted, (Stephen) the only thing that had him conflicted was the social stigma.
Well, I'd say he's Gay too, but when they were both standing in the rain after John's return from the date with Christina he says he really likes her but he LOVES Stephen.
But I'm not sure what you mean when you say "They'd think it would reduce his suffering." John could very well go on to lead a semi comfortable heterosexual life and it may become unbearable at a future point. I met a lot of Gay men (at the local Gay community center) in their late 50's, 60's and 70's who were married, kids, grandkids the whole 9 yards. Many married because they weren't sure, thought it was a passing phase, needed a wife/kids for career advancement , whatever. So that is why I ask what you mean. Thanks
Re: the bold bit.
What the..? I doubt this would have any impact at all. share
Dear P1990:
I'm making an assumption about your comment "I doubt this would have any impact at all." In my answer below, I assume you mean that you don't think it matters whether these men married or not, for career advancement.
If your name indicates you were born in 1990 - you have no idea. I can't begin to explain how things were in the past. I can talk about it, give you examples but it is impossible to really give you the feeling unless you lived through it. One acted as straight as possible in school - it was the kiss of death if your fellow students thought you were a fag. Police would arrest Gay people for having sex in their own homes. Their names would be in the newspaper and they would lose their jobs, their apartments etc. ABSOLUTELY yes, guys married and had kids for cover. For security. I'm not as old as they are but how can I invalidate their experiences? How can you?