MovieChat Forums > Get Real (1999) Discussion > Steve's speech: Was it brave?

Steve's speech: Was it brave?

posted 11 years ago by dunlap-mark64
31 replies | jump to latest

I used to admire the bravery Steven showed, in 1997-98, announcing that he's gay to the whole city of Basingstoke, such a conservative community, announcing it to the whole school, where no student is openly gay.

Recently it occurred to me that it wasn't really so brave.

Now I can imagine a conversation between Steven and Jessica, whether in the hallway right outside of the assembly hall, or maybe on a day or two later, that would go something like this. Jessica would say "Steve, that was so brave of you to make that announcement in front of the whole school, especially given how much grief Kevin and guys like that had already been giving you."
Steven would reply: "Thanks, Jess, but you shouldn't give me that much credit for supposed bravery. Kevin already knew I'm gay before I gave that speech. He figured it out - for sure - several minutes before I got up on that stage. He heard me talking to myself about how much I love John, and said to me 'You really are queer.' I didn't deny it at that point; there would be no point in denying it. Dave heard it too. So both Kevin and Dave knew, for certain, that I'm gay before I stood up there and said so in front of the rest of the school. I was just trying to beat them to the punch. I knew that once they knew they weren't going to keep it to themselves. I sat there for a few moments thinking about the fact that they were probably going to blab it all over school. So I decided I wanted to be the one who told everyone else before they did."

In another sense, though, I still admire the speech in another way: "I'm sick of being totally alone. I want to have friends who like me for who I really am. ... I'm sick of hiding, of being sad and scared." That's the kind of thing I've always identified with, ever since I first saw the movie.

[–] caltrans 11 years ago

John added to their knowledge when he threw Steven to the floor and called him a queer bastard to make it look like Steven was making an advance on John following the presumed bashing by John. I still loved the whole movie though.

[–] dunlap-mark64 11 years ago

I am rethinking what I posted above, and I realize now that I'm being too one-dimensional in talking about what motivated Steven to give that coming-out speech. So often in life, people do have mixed motives for why they do something as important as that. And Steven surely did have multiple motives in giving that speech. Only part of it was the realization that he could be outed by Kevin and Dave, but all of the things I used to think about, years ago when I first saw the movie, are also part of Steven's motivation: the fact that he doesn't want to be as closeted as John. After John hurt Steven so badly, emotionally and physically, right before the assembly started, Steven must have been thinking about how and why John would have done that, and Steven knew John's motivation: that John is so terrified of anyone finding out that he's gay, and that John still feels somewhat ashamed of his sexuality. Steven has never felt shame like John does, he just understands the fact of John's shame. Steven has certainly understood John's fears of being found out, but Steven's desire to overcome that fear and to start telling everyone the truth about himself kept growing. It must have culminated when he lay there on the locker room floor thinking about why John had hurt him.

And there were other motivations, too. It isn't right to characterize Steven's motivation as one-dimensional: that it was only about pre-empting Kevin and Dave before they spread the rumor about Steven.

[–] uthayaa 10 years ago

One thing you have to remember is that it was 1997, you had to be extremely brave even to tell your best friend, let alone the whole school & their families like that. Even if Kevin and Dave knew, it still does not take away from Steven's bravery.

Just like you said, Get Real was a film with which I could personally identify at some level. These words still hold the same meaning for me : "I'm sick of being totally alone. I want to have friends who like me for who I really am. ... I'm sick of hiding, of being sad and scared."

[–] caltrans 10 years ago

Is it any easier on 2014?

[–] jaroslaw99 10 years ago

I can only speak for myself to answer "is it any easier in 2014?" I would say absolutely yes. At least where I grew up, being Gay was considered a combination of perversion, mental illness, abnormal etc. I know many people still feel this way and even in 1977 when I was in high school I knew it wasn't abnormal. But the feeling in my gut, even now a little tiny bit, is that "I am not like the other guys." But I'm out at work now, (which I would never have considered doing 30 years ago) there are many successful people in the media, sports etc. who are out. I was very emotional, happiness beyond words when Massachussetts legalized marriage for us. I never thought in my wildest dreams that would happen in my lifetime. So yes, how could it not be easier in 2014?

[–] Ssilve 9 years ago

Considering this movie was set in the UK, I think it was very brave of Steve. It was not until 2001 that having gay sex with a man younger than 18 (which I think Steve was) was illegal in the UK.

[–] caltrans 9 years ago

Patrick Wilde wrote the original play pointedly noting that Steven was 16. Also in the movie, 16 is stated several times. The UK politics on the subject were at a peak when the movie was made.

[–] dunlap-mark64 10 years ago

Sorry I didn't reply right away, uthayaa. I didn't mean to ignore you.
But yes, when I first saw the movie about 13-14 years ago, that speech seemed braver because of the realities of social attitudes during that period - braver than if the speech were given now. What I posted in the original post was based on a newer perspective than how I previously felt. I said it because of a realization I had last month: it never occurred to me before that Kevin and Dave were in a position in which they might have outed Steven if he didn't out himself.
"I'm sick of being totally alone. I want to have friends who like me for who I really am. ... I'm sick of hiding, of being sad and scared." Those words were so poignant and inspiring 13-14 years ago. I strongly identified with how Steven felt, even though I'm about 17 years older than fictional Steven Carter.
FYI, during the 1990s I was a very active Republican. I regularly attended meetings of four different Republican organizations during that decade, one of them being Log Cabin Republicans. But I wasn't out to the other three organizations. When I saw Get Real in 2000 or 2001, I was so moved and inspired that I decided I want to be as brave as Steven. No more hiding because I wanted them to like me. Either they'll like me for what I really am or they won't, but I won't hide any more. In 2003, the right moment came for me to come out. The Supreme Court handed down Lawrence v. Texas on June 26, and when the County Executive of my home county (2000 population: about 284,000) mentioned that ruling at a meeting the very next day, I came out and told them - a room full of at least 25 straight Republicans, including the County Executive - how I feel about the ruling.

[–] sirjeremy 10 years ago

I don't think the possibility of Kevin and Dave outing Steven was one reason why Steven made the speech; after all, by outing Steven, then they'd be outing John as well, wouldn't they? Which Steven would realise.

[–] dunlap-mark64 10 years ago

I doubt that. That is, the only thing in the story that ever implied either Kevin or Dave had some doubts about John's sexuality was when Kevin demanded that Steven say that John is not queer. But after John kicked Steven, why would either of them continue to have doubts about John's sexuality?
Maybe they could have continued to have doubts because they might be smart enough to know that a guy as deeply closeted as John might gay-bash just to preserve his image and to prevent his friends from figuring out the truth, but I wouldn't give either of those two guys that much credit for being that smart!
There wasn't anything for Steven to realise about whether Kevin and Dave might out John. John's gay-bash actions were intended to fool K and D, and I think it worked completely, and I think Steven thought the same thing. I can't imagine that Steven might have thought that K and D might out John.

[–] sirjeremy 10 years ago

But how would they out Steven without implicating John?

[–] caltrans 10 years ago

Touché

Watching it yet another time yesterday in the car on my long commute, would Linda and/or Jess out John? They were quite pissed sitting on the bench following Steven's speech. By the way, I have some strong evidence that there is a wedding in London today.

[–] dunlap-mark64 10 years ago

As I say below, Linda or Jessica could out John, but remember that Jessica promised not to do so, and in the deleted scenes Linda spoke directly to John to assure him that she won't ever mention what she knows to anyone else. Irrespective of the deleted scenes, Linda always kept Steven's secret, and she would most likely keep John's secret for him too, even if she happens to think he's a jerk.

Accidental slips of the tongue do happen, though. I know from experience. And that fact is another reason for John to get over his fears and shame, tell his parents, Kevin, and Dave the truth, and maybe, hopefully, that would mean J & S can live happily ever after, like in so many of the Fan Fiction stories. Remember the line from "The Longest Day" ... "Steve, you won't let me love you unless I'm honest. But I can't not love you, so I have to be honest." (An awkward pair of sentences, but a lovely sentiment.) Lots of reasons to be honest are there, all around him. He just has to overcome those fears and shame to do it.

[–] dunlap-mark64 10 years ago

Steven outed himself. During the speech he strongly implied there's at least one other gay guy in the school, but only Linda and Jessica knew - and Steven's parents had a pretty good suspicion - who Steven was implicitly referring to. I think only those four could be people who, besides Steven, could out John.

If Kevin and Dave were to tell others in school that Steven is in love with John, why would that reveal that John and Steven had been intimate, that they'd been "more than friends"? There is such a thing as unrequited love. Neither Kevin or Dave had any reason to think that John felt the same way about Steven as they heard Steven say he felt about John. They're both somewhat dumb, Kevin more than Dave, but they're not unreasonable. Reasonable people can think that a platonic friendship could develop between a straight, extroverted "Head Boy" of the school and a reclusive, introverted gay guy. Kevin, Dave, and anyone else in school whom they told about Steven's crush on John can think that John didn't even know that Steven is gay when they'd become "mates," ... close enough friends that John would invite Steven over for a swim.

Speaking of which, ... the only way Kevin could unintentionally out John would be if Kevin were to mention to Mr. or Mrs. Dixon that he saw John and Steven frolicking in the pool the previous weekend. When I was contemplating writing a Fan Fiction piece of my own, that was a scenario that I imagined. Kevin, who still thinks John is straight, and thinks that Steven has a crush on John, decides to make a comment to Raymond Dixon along the lines of: "Mr. Dixon, I thought I'd mention to you I saw that Steven Carter kid swimming with John in your pool last Saturday. It surprised me that John and Steven could become mates - I'd never seen them being friendly towards one another before - but John obviously didn't even know, at the time, that Steven is queer. I know now that John really regrets becoming friendly with that guy!" That would be how Raymond would realize that John lied about not knowing Steven, and Raymond would figure out why John lied. As such, he'd confront John that evening, saying something like: "John, Kevin told me today that he saw you and Steven swimming in our pool last Saturday. So that can only mean Steven told the truth the first time when he said, to your mother, he was here with you that weekend, before he then lied and changed the story into one about only having dropped off a book you'd lent him. And this means, as well, you lied to me about not knowing who Steven is. Obviously there can be only one reason for you and Steven to tell those lies. ....."

So that's how I can imagine, after Steven's speech, that Kevin might unintentionally out John. But that scenario assumes Kevin would talk to Raymond Dixon about an event that was confusing but unimportant to Kevin, and even as I was imagining how to write a story like that, I had a difficult time believing that Kevin would mention anything to Mr. Dixon about the pool. It seemed like a contrived and stretched element of the plot I was developing.

Kevin himself could figure out the whole truth if he knew that John told Raymond that he doesn't know who Steven is. But Kevin was on the other side of the field, getting ready for the relay race, when Raymond asked John "Who's Steven Carter?" And why would Raymond ever mention to Kevin that John claimed to not know who Steven is?

Again, if Kevin and Dave go around telling others in school, and even Mr. and Mrs. Dixon, that Steven is gay and is in love with John, that does not reveal to anyone John is gay too. Kevin can only out John, unintentionally, if he happens to mention to either of John's parents - especially Raymond - what he saw in the Dixons' pool the previous weekend.

I'm pretty sure I've thought this all through, but maybe not. Have you got another theory that blows away anything I've said? Any wholes I haven't thought of yet?

[–] sirjeremy 10 years ago

It seems that you're overthinking all this. It would be extremely unlikely that Steven's good friends would out John, just as it would be very unlikely for Dave and Kevin to out John. Yes they could do but chances are they won't. Sorry if I sound patronising but in this situation privacy and loyalty would be at the forefront of everyone's minds.

I went to a school not dissimilar to the one depicted in this film, by the way, not that I'm saying my opinion is the right one.

[–] caltrans 10 years ago

As I said several months ago, your English experience trumps our American character interpretations with Patrick Wilde's play. But don't you think Steven felt that he had to do it for other reasons than for personal relief?

[–] sirjeremy 10 years ago

Yes, caltrans, he implicitly was asking for John to come out, too. And maybe some other gay closeted kids in the audience.

[–] dunlap-mark64 10 years ago

I don't think I'm overanalyzing anything, I just don't think you and I have the same assumption about what Kevin and Dave know about John.
"I don't think the possibility of Kevin and Dave outing Steven was one reason why Steven made the speech; after all, by outing Steven, then they'd be outing John as well, wouldn't they? Which Steven would realise."
"But how would they out Steven without implicating John?"
"... it would be very unlikely for David and Kevin to out John, ... in this situation privacy and loyalty would be at the forefront. ..."

In my very long-winded way, I am emphasizing that I don't believe Kevin and Dave know or realize that John is gay. I'll concede that if they did know what John didn't want them to know, they very well might want to keep his secret for him. But I have been and am disputing whether they know his secret.

[–] caltrans 10 years ago

If you go back to the initial premise set out in the assumed discussion between Steven and Jessica, what Steven lays out to her is hard to deny. Yes, Steven is presuming but the evidence is all there. Then on to the hall and the acceptance speech. That is where my faith kicks in and feel that Steven said to himself, lets just finish it.

[–] sirjeremy 10 years ago

But it's more than an assumption. They clearly know John is gay or bisexual, or at least have a good idea. Which is the crux of what I was saying at the weekend.

[–] caltrans 10 years ago

By Jove, I think we got it (couldn't resist that-crazy American in me)!

[–] dunlap-mark64 10 years ago

That's never been clear to me. Now I understand why you said what you have said.

The only things that occurred in the story that, to me, could imply Kevin knows John isn't straight is: 1) the puzzled expressions on his face when he sees John talking to Steven at school and again when he sees John and Steven frolicking in the pool; and 2) he insisted that Steven say John isn't gay. Maybe Kevin and Dave could figure it out, too, from the fact that Steven looked at John during the speech. But I never have concluded that, based on those events, that either Kevin or Dave figured out the very thing John did not want them to figure out. The whole reason John gay-bashed Steven was to keep his friends from figuring out the truth, and your conclusion is that "clearly" he did not succeed. All of the times I've watched the movie, I've always concluded that John succeeded at fooling his friends - fooling them into thinking that he's straight. Likewise, I've never had any reason to think that Steven knows that Kevin and Dave know the truth about John. In my interpretation, to whatever extent Steven was thinking about whether Kevin and Dave know or suspect John's secret, he must have thought that John successfully fooled his friends.

[–] caltrans 10 years ago

I have truly evolved into the position that Kevin and Dave knew, that John was unsuccessful in changing their view but probably convinced them to keep quiet with his bashing of Steven to wipe their expressions off of their faces when they ran back in. Now back to was Steven brave or simply cleaning up. I believe the latter. Kevin asking him to deny that John was queer and not himself under the threat of severe bodily harm and then John pretending to bash him in the gym made it clear that even John knew they believed it. By the way, what if John and Steven were allowed to finish the bashing and the kiss unnoticed? Would the British preference for privacy prevail and everyone just walked away from it for the Summer with John, Kevin and Dave graduating and Steven just moving on unhappily? That would have been a bad ending for the viewers and would not have started all of these threads.

[–] jaroslaw99 10 years ago

Kevin and Dave saw John & Steven in an embrace. They would have to be retarded to dismiss it 100% completely just because John kicked Steven. At some level, everyone knows who strives to fit in, who has principles, etc. even in high school.

I will also add people like to be in their comfort zone, so no John did not "fool" them except in the sense they wanted to be fooled.

[–] caltrans 10 years ago

I understand that "comfort zone". I gave up being right for the sake of being right a long time ago. I make a judgment of the relations as the discussion is going on and decide to change the subject or give some kind of comment that says that is the end of the discussion. Not saying that is a correct form of behavior, but I can relate to what you have said. Another time is when someone comes on so strong that you know from the start that further discussion will only exacerbate the situation and for what purpose.

I do believe that on this thread, we all have had a very thoughtful, open and interesting discussion of the possibilities about one of the best movies made and we are all the better for it.

[–] jaroslaw99 10 years ago

Cal - I didn't word it as beautifully as I would have liked, but if you understood what I was driving at, I'm glad for that! :)

[–] caltrans 10 years ago

I believe that we all agree that Patrick Wilde was a genius. We are all coming to conclusions resulting from our own assessments of the character's character and whether they will act on their perceptions. There is no logic, only speculation. sirjeremy is British and he thinks from the British way of "privacy" is paramount which means that people will just move on and choose to let it all pass. Mark and I are American logicians. But being an engineer and scientist, I have learned that the next bit of data can only throw everything out of the window.

I believe (almost like a religious faith) that when Steven was weighing what to do, as he was getting up from the floor, that he knew he was now out and he might as well punctuate it and he, himself just move on. Like all faiths, there is always the doubt and another view point.

Oh bloody movie!

[–] thealphakeno 10 years ago

Super brave! I have respect for gay and he did the right thing. He just need a support and thats his family and friends for..

[–] dunlap-mark64 10 years ago

The most important part of the bravery was that he was telling his parents, even more than he was telling "the world." I too often forget that his greatest fear was that his parent's might not love and support him any more, even more than that friends like Mark wouldn't be his friend any more, or that guys like Kevin and Dave would bully him even worse than before.

What made me start this thread was this thought: was it really being brave in telling the whole school, given the probability that Kevin and Dave would have, could have, spread the news about Steven anyway? That situation (forgetting about the fact that Steven's parents were in the auditorium too) was, to me, like a politician who might have been outed via the media - sometimes because some gay sex scandal was hanging over their head - so they tell the media first, before the media breaks the news. I was thinking about guys like Jim McGreevey of New Jersey and Jim Kolbe of Arizona. And it seemed to detract from Steven's bravery to think about that comparison.

[–] thealphakeno 10 years ago

If braveness is a question about his speech, then he really did succeed on that. But for us the big question was, 'Was is the right thing to do?'. My best friend is gay and he has the same situation and I think most gays do experience this stuff. They have no problem on coming out and tell to public about them but what they afraid of is what will happen to them after?

Their greatest fear is to be left out and abandon by the people they love. Most are parents that's why they have this feeling of keeping it to themselves or to the closest people in their life who they know they can trust to.

From that scene after his speech, it was a judgement day for his. He knows all the consequences when he come out. His Mom support him but his Dad still on the rocks about it. He lost Mark, who he shared love and everything. He just need to move on and start a new life. A real life as a person.

People just blind about whats going on in reality. They still stuck in believing about gayness is not normal. they don't even think that nobody chose to be gay. Who wants to live his whole life being bullied? We can't change peoples point of view about it. But we can support our gay friends by sticking with them until the society accepts them.

[–] caltrans 10 years ago

Well said!