Are people really that dumb? - Sleepy Hollow (1999) Discussion

[–] masterofallgoons 9 years ago

Yeah, I never really got that complaint either. It seems to be a pretty common issue, but I never really thought there was anything too tough to follow. It's pretty easy to keep track of, and the plot is relatively simple. I guess the idea that some people have a hard time grasping is the conspiracy of the townspeople. I always thought that was pretty straightforward once it was uncovered too.

Plus, the movie is really about the experience and style, and on that side it's one of the most stylish and best looking movies ever made.

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[–] Scipii 9 years ago

Do people honestly think this is difficult to follow? I've never heard that before.

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[–] Stratego 9 years ago

I think some people don't understand why Mrs. Van Tassel would fake her death, if she wanted to inherit everything. The original script said she was going to come out of the woods the next day and claim she fled from the Horseman. But in the movie, nothing like that is suggested.

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[–] ThoseLittleRabbits 9 years ago

that's the part that doesn't make sense to me.

i've got feelings too, ya know - inbetweeners

http://melanoidnation.org/white-man-warns-all-black

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[–] Stratego 9 years ago

Well, like I said. She was going to come back the next day and claim her inheritance. She just wanted Ichabod to go away and not consider her a suspect anymore.

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[–] ThoseLittleRabbits 9 years ago

that still doesn't make any sense. the dead body and herself both had a scar how was she going to explain that? or did she assume that NO ONE but icabob noticed the big nasty thing on her hand? and why did she do the big reveal? other then to let the audience know her motives. killers always get sloppy after the big reveal 

i've got feelings too, ya know - inbetweeners

http://melanoidnation.org/white-man-warns-all-black

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[–] Stratego 9 years ago

the dead body and herself both had a scar how was she going to explain that?

What? The maid couldn't have had a wound as well on the opposite hand? What would be the problem with that?

and why did she do the big reveal? other then to let the audience know her motives.

Well yeah, obviously. I suppose we have to assume these kind of killers get a kick out of letting their final victims know exactly why they're about to die.

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[–] ThoseLittleRabbits 9 years ago

What? The maid couldn't have had a wound as well on the opposite hand? What would be the problem with that?

that's a cop out

i've got feelings too, ya know - inbetweeners

http://melanoidnation.org/white-man-warns-all-black

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[–] Stratego 9 years ago

How is that a cop out? Lady van Tassel wanted people to think she was dead long enough to not be considered a suspect anymore, but to still come back to claim her inheritance. What would've been a less easy way out for the character to achieve that? Beheading someone else and giving them a similar wound would be one of the best ways. And it was really only Ichabod who knew about the scar, the other townspeople assumed it was Lady van Tassel because her husband claimed she had been killed and because the maid was wearing her clothes.

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[–] masterofallgoons 9 years ago

It's not a cop out at all. It makes perfect sense.

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[–] ThoseLittleRabbits 9 years ago

that makes no sense. why would someone else be wearing the exact same clothes she was wearing the day everyone thought she was killed. even when they found out it was actually the maid who was killed, why was the maid wearing her clothes? a better thing would be to not fake her own death, and then come back later and claim she ran away from the horseman, and that her husband had fled before actually seeing her killed. plus icabob would have never figured it out, thus not saving katrina.

i really like this movie but towards the end is where it falls apart. the writing got lazy

i've got feelings too, ya know - inbetweeners

http://melanoidnation.org/white-man-warns-all-black

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[–] Stratego 9 years ago

why would someone else be wearing the exact same clothes she was wearing the day everyone thought she was killed.

And who exactly saw her in those clothes except her husband, her stepdaughter and Ichabod, who were meant to be dead or gone before she came back to town?

even when they found out it was actually the maid who was killed, why was the maid wearing her clothes?

In the original script Lady van Tassel was going to claim the maid was her husband's mistress, so that may have been a reason she dressed up in his wife's fancy clothes. Who knows what she was going to tell the townspeople in the movie, they were fools anyway. The most important thing is that she made Ichabod believe she was dead. Her goal was for him to leave town.

i really like this movie but towards the end is where it falls apart. the writing got lazy

I get the initial confusion about why Lady van Tassel faked her own death because they took out the explanation, but no, the writing did not get lazy. If you think about it for a second, the maid was missing and Lady van Tassel wanted to claim her inheritence, so it seems obvious that she was going to come back to town and pretend it was a case of mistaken identity.

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[–] ThoseLittleRabbits 9 years ago

In the original script Lady van Tassel was going to claim the maid was her husband's mistress, so that may have been a reason she dressed up in his wife's fancy clothes. Who knows what she was going to tell the townspeople in the movie, they were fools anyway. The most important thing is that she made Ichabod believe she was dead. Her goal was for him to leave town

well the script didn't show up in the film so that was useless. and her plan didn't work because the scar is what made him turn back, and he figured it was a set up 

the maid was missing and Lady van Tassel wanted to claim her inheritence, so it seems obvious that she was going to come back to town and pretend it was a case of mistaken identity

with the exact same scar on the exact same hand, and in her clothes?? 

either the writing got sloppy or her plan got sloppy, just like in the movie scream

i've got feelings too, ya know - inbetweeners

http://melanoidnation.org/white-man-warns-all-black

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[–] Stratego 9 years ago

well the script didn't show up in the film so that was useless.

And as I said, it doesn't really matter what she was going to tell the villagers, because they weren't the ones needing to be convinced.

with the exact same scar on the exact same hand, and in her clothes??

Maybe the maid was a thief or maybe she borrowed her mistress' dress to meet up with her beau. She could've made up any excuse. Who exactly knew about the scar and payed attention to it on the body? Only Ichabod it seems to me and he was meant to be gone. Even if someone remembered the scar on the maid's hand, they're not going to accuse her of faking her own death. The villagers were superstitious and believed in the headless horseman they all had seen now for themselves.

either the writing got sloppy or her plan got sloppy

Her plan getting sloppy was the whole point. She needed to improvise because Ichabod wouldn't let go. She would not have been caught if she hadn't cut the wrong hand. The writing didn't get sloppy however.

just like in the movie scream

 I'm sure you mean The Inbetweeners Movie.

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[–] ThoseLittleRabbits 9 years ago

Maybe the maid was a thief or maybe she borrowed her mistress' dress to meet up with her beau. She could've made up any excuse. Who exactly knew about the scar and payed attention to it on the body? Only Ichabod it seems to me and he was meant to be gone. Even if someone remembered the scar on the maid's hand, they're not going to accuse her of faking her own death. The villagers were superstitious and believed in the headless horseman they all had seen now for themselves.

not a very good thief if she's wearing her clothing in a small villege. and one person she tried to convince didn't even work cause she decided to do the scar on the hand.

Her plan getting sloppy was the whole point. She needed to improvise because Ichabod wouldn't let go. She would not have been caught if she hadn't cut the wrong hand. The writing didn't get sloppy however

she didn't cut the wrong hand, she cut the maid's hand after death. that's how icabob was able to confirm something was up. more proof you have no clue what you're talking about

i've got feelings too, ya know - inbetweeners

http://melanoidnation.org/white-man-warns-all-black

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[–] Stratego 9 years ago

not a very good thief if she's wearing her clothing in a small villege

She is if she tried to get the hell out of there and took along some of her mistress' valuables while she was at it. But Lady Van Tassel could've used a number of excuses.

she didn't cut the wrong hand, she cut the maid's hand after death. that's how icabob was able to confirm something was up

A nice effort to deflect, but it actually supports my point even more. Who in the 18th century was going to assume that someone would notice the wound was made post-mortem and conclude the body must belong to a different person? Ichabod is presented as someone who is ahead of his time when it comes to forensics. Lady Van Tassel had to improvise, but didn't understand who she was dealing with. And she actually almost did get away with it. There's no sloppy writing, just a character underestimating another character.

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[–] ThoseLittleRabbits 9 years ago

Ichabod is presented as someone who is ahead of his time when it comes to forensics

while trying to bash what i said, you proved my point. he was able to figure out that someone was controlling the horseman, who in their right mind wouldn't figure out that something would be fishy about the scar. you don't need forensic evidence to raise an eyebrow at that.

And she actually almost did get away with it. There's no sloppy writing, just a character underestimating another character

there is sloppy writing because why would the maid and lady van have the exact same scar on the exact same hand. and who plans on running out of the town and stealing things, while WEARING IT BROUGHT DAY LIGHT. this a cop out. who fakes their own death and then comes back into town to try and claim an inhertiance? the only people who would allow this, is if they were too scared to speak out against her. and if that was the case. it would have been better to not involve the maid at all, but of course they needed a way to bring icabob back to save the day. sloppy writing. i'm just going to block you

i've got feelings too, ya know - inbetweeners

http://melanoidnation.org/white-man-warns-all-black

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[–] Stratego 9 years ago

I did not bash you, if anything you were bashing me.

he was able to figure out that someone was controlling the horseman, who in their right mind wouldn't figure out that something would be fishy about the scar.

He knew about the Horseman's grave because of Lady Van Tassel's sister and found no skull there. That's certainly not the same as forensics. So why would she, who knows nothing about blood flow and clotting, expect Ichabod to see that the cut was made after death?

who plans on running out of the town and stealing things, while WEARING IT BROUGHT DAY LIGHT.

Because there was a horseman around killing people in town, so it'd be wise to get out there as fast as possible. The townspeople were all at church and hadn't seen Lady Van Tassel either, so why would they wonder about the maid fleeing during broad daylight without being seen? But anyway, Lady Van Tassel could've made up several excuses.

who fakes their own death and then comes back into town to try and claim an inhertiance?

Someone who wants the constable in charge of the investigation to leave town.

There's no sloppy writing. She added the cut because the dress alone might not be convincing enough, not at first glance at least. According to you she shouldn't have made the cut. Well, in that case she would've gotten away with it. If the maid hadn't been involved at all, then the ending would have been totally different. The writer apparently wanted an ending with all suspects seemingly dead except Katrina and Lady Van Tassel causing her own downfall. That doesn't seem like an easy way out, which is what a "cop out" means. But what would've been a less easy way out then?

i'm just going to block you

How childish, just because we disagree? You can't even discuss a movie like an adult?

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[–] masterofallgoons 9 years ago

I guess some times people just want to cry 'plot hole' so much that no amount of reasoned explanation or logic will even slightly move them off of their stance.

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[–] Stratego 9 years ago

I agree, especially because they first complained about a different issue.

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[–] chilone 8 years ago

well the script didn't show up in the film so that was useless. and her plan didn't work because the scar is what made him turn back, and he figured it was a set up

No. The scar was what made him leave. With the step mother dead (Ichabod saw the scar and assumed she was), Katrina became the heir. Ichabod came to the conclusion that it was Katrina all along and left, either because he couldn't force himself to confront her because of his love for her, or he figured he couldn't prove it.

Actually what made him turn back was the book Katrina gave him showed that Katrina's spell(s) were supposed to protect him and others she loves and were NOT the "evil eye".

I don't love her.. She kicked me in the face!!

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[–] ThoseLittleRabbits 8 years ago

it was the scar that made him turn back and he confirmed it was made after death

i've got feelings too, ya know - inbetweeners

http://melanoidnation.org/white-man-warns-all-black

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[–] chilone 8 years ago

I disagree. First, the scar didn't exonerate Katrina. Second, he is shown looking at the book she gave him and sees that the "evil eye" is shown to actually be a spell to protect loved ones. It is at that moment that he tells the driver to turn the coach around because he realizes Katrina was innocent.

I don't love her.. She kicked me in the face!!

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[–] ThoseLittleRabbits 8 years ago

idc if you disagree. you're still wrong

i've got feelings too, ya know - inbetweeners

http://melanoidnation.org/white-man-warns-all-black

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[–] chilone 8 years ago

No. You're wrong.

I don't love her.. She kicked me in the face!!

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[–] ThoseLittleRabbits 8 years ago

and youre blocked. *beep* off

i've got feelings too, ya know - inbetweeners

http://melanoidnation.org/white-man-warns-all-black

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[–] chilone 8 years ago

Ooooooooooo! BLOCKED!!! O NOES!! Not blocked!!! Booo hoooo! You disagweed wif meeeee..........

I don't love her.. She kicked me in the face!!

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[–] Towelie_Towel 9 years ago

Classic. Saying people who have an issue with a movie are "dumb". This plot is all over the place. The elder men of the village barely have any screen time and their names are mentioned briefly. It's very easy for any person, regardless of their "dumbness", to confuse them by the time Ichabod has his epiphanies.

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[–] Stratego 9 years ago

I wouldn't call people dumb, but the names really don't matter. The men are involved in a conspiracy to keep the marriage between the older Van Garrett and the widow Winship, the pregnancy and the the new will a secret. Eventually it turns out that Lady Van Tassel blackmailed them to keep quiet. I think this is obvious the first time around as it is explicitly mentioned and shown, although I can understand missing some of the details.

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[–] Tyler-A-Arse 9 years ago

Classic. Saying people who have an issue with a movie are "dumb". This plot is all over the place. The elder men of the village barely have any screen time and their names are mentioned briefly. It's very easy for any person, regardless of their "dumbness", to confuse them by the time Ichabod has his epiphanies.

If you don't pay attention to the names, it's easy to get a little lost as to who is who. I had to go back to Crane's first meeting with the old fogies to get that part right before I could continue without scratching my head a little.

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[–] mikainen 9 years ago

It is confusing if you're in Instagram and Facebook at the same time watching a movie.

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[–] glisscpc 9 years ago

It doesn't matter how long the reveal is or how much they show, if the reveal itself doesn't make sense, then the plot doesn't make sense. Those people aren't dumb. It's te movie that is dumb.

The reveal scene drags ON AND ON, but we're supposed to believe that the ONE line that would have made this plot (sort-of) work "I didn't actually die I was in the woods the whole time now I'm back to get my money" was taken out, for some reason? Why? So the movie could seem even stupider?

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