A 6.5!? Holy @#$%! This film is absolutely terrible. I love Al Pacino. Dennis Quaid and Jamie Foxx are fine actors. Lawrence Taylor is my favorite Giant of all-time. This movie, however, is dreadful and takes sucking to a whole new level.
shareThe only response I have to you is to ask "Are you mentally retarded?"
shareIt would help if you said why you think it sucked instead of just saying so. Get specific.
“Honey, there’s a spider in your bathroom the size of a Buick!”--Alvy (Annie Hall/1977)
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Bodhisattva_PBSurfing:
I find it interesting that you would come on here and call everyone morons. I have seen your posting on other threads of this film as well where you resort to calling people idiots or morons.
The film is unrealistic on many levels.
A) Team Doctors do not argue on the practice field in regards to personal health issues of players in front of the team.
B) Backup (3rd String) QB's no matter how well they play do not get marketing deals within 2-3 games of there first appearance. And for that matter have hip hop songs written and marketed for them in that time as well.
C) Legendary coaches do not take that much crap from an owner during a season. Assuming Pacino was based on a Landry, Parcells, Walsh caliber coach they would tell there owners to screw off.
D) Offensive Cordinaters do not have this type of relationship with the owner and the head coach. Unless you are Al Davis the Cordinater works directly under the HC. If the team is indeed run this way the team would have been 0-13 at this point in the season.
E) Owners do not have the ability to just break a lease with a city and there venue. The league has to approve a team to move.
F) Finally....Owners do not go into locker rooms at halftime and go postal on the HC. Even Al Davis and Jerry Jones stay away from that nonsense.
G) Do you really really think that people believe that people talk this way???? The dialogue in this film blows!!
H) Willie Beamon not have the ability to "just" go to an exapansion team in Albaqerkie. The idea that NM would ever get a franchise is ludicrous in itself but whatever. When the NFL expands there is an expansion draft. If Willie was a free agent then his AGENT...Yes I said agent...would probably have told him to stay away from an expansion team AND a coach who's philosophy was so opposed to Beamans style. If this movie had any concept of reality the idea of trading a star player like Cap or Shark would have to go through an AGENT which stone never addressed.
I) The argument after the game between LL Cool J and the OC and HC was stupid. How come the OC and HC had no idea that Beaman was changing the plays in the huddle? If the play was a dive play and all of a sudden is a long pass play would anyone have figured this out? Not to mention I seriously doubt that any RB would ever tell the OC to shut up during an offensive meeting. Oh yeah...Peyton Manning and Tom Brady...hell even Mike Vick would watch film. During the movie they state categoricly that Beamon never watched film. I guarentee you that they would have brought in a free agent that would watch film.
those reasons are the tip of the iceberg on why this film blew dog. Again...If you think this film was realistic that is your perogative but people that follow football know this to be differant.
This isn't the NFL though. They don't have the same rules as the NFL. Also, this is a MOVIE. It is a work of FICTION. It is not a DOCUMENTARY. It is a film about a fictitious team in a fictitious league. Therefore, only three of your points are valid. And at that, they are your opinion. No sense arguing about opinions here.
shareOn a level for someone who doesn't follow football I did notice some details that seemed "off". I was actually amazed this was an Oliver Stone film as it seemed sort of hokie. But with all that left on the sidelines it went further than other football movies in making me feel "satisfied" with the climax. The only one I know of that beats this is Rudy. Now that movie goes places.
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Bodhisattva_PBSurfing:
Uh actually I do follow pro sports quite a bit. Football specificly. If you actually believe that Stones rendition of the NFL is acurate then maybe you are the one that is in need of some education.
A) No I have never been to an NFL practice field before. BUT, I know for a fact that the team doc does not argue and discuss openly other players injuries on the sidelines in front of the team. It is called ethics and doctors can lose there license to practice over this behavior. I also doubt that LL Cool J's character would be chillin in the bleachers during a practice.
B) Yes Romo was a backup. And he did not get endorsements after only two starts. On that note, Cap was a HOF QB that got injured. I doubt the third string QB coming in to a couple of games would demand the starting job. IN the real NFL a backup (3rd string) could go in and do well (Willie Beaman type QB) becuase there is no film on him. In the end teams would study the film and figure out his game. So ultimately I doubt that ANY QB would get a ton of endorsments an a rap song written, recorded and released within the 30 days of his first game played with the sharks. REALITY dude.
C)Possibly, but in the real world the media would pick up on what is going on and there would be a firestorm. Look at Kiffin and Davis. Al Davis looks like a douche right now. Not to say that Kiffin is legendary.
D)Do you think that Parcells, Dungy or Walsh asked there GM to bring in a OC for them? No they hired the GM on there own. TO prevent what happened in this movie. The offensive philosophy of Tony D did not mesh with the OC in this film. Again this movie only works if it is based on the modern day Raiders.
E) The league does not OK anything. There has to be cause and the league has to approve it and be in the works. In the case of the Sonics the city was not supporting the team and the franchise was losing money. Remember the NFL and the Raiders sued each other over the move from LA back to Oakland because Al Davis just went ahead and moved without league approval.
F) Again bringing up one example in baseball does not make it the norm in the NFL. I guarantee that even the most obnoxious owners Jones and Davis respect the locker room and would not undermine a HOF coach by coming in at half time and demanding a player be benched. If you think that this would happen well I guess you dont know your sports as much as you think.
G) Sorry but the dialogue does blow. Nobody in the real world talks like this specificly the commentators and the executives.
H)Albuquerque would not get a franchise. IF you think they would get an NFL team then you are clueless. Green Bay is the exception to the rule based on them being in that city for 60+ seasons and the fanatical following within the city. Again, if you really believe the NFL would ever approve a franchise in Albuquerque then you must not know sports nearly as much as you think you do.
I) TO has been booted out of every franchise he has played. Philly deactivated him and San Francisco wanted nothing to do with him at the end. The same can be said about Keyshawn, he was deactivated based on his conduct as well. Does it happen? Yes but it is the exception rather than the rule. My problem with this film is that there are no consequences in this film for any of the stupid crap that happens. The fight scene in the shower. Steve Smith is the star on the Panthers and punched a teammate. He was suspended for 2 games, yet LL Cool J beat up the "SUPERSTAR" QB as this film is portraying him and all hat happens is a stern lecture from the HC and the matter is forgotten. Whatever.
It is very evident that you do not know nearly as much about sports as you think you do. I understand that you are most likely a 17-24 year old kid that thinks he knows everything but trust me....you do not. I do not diss you either, I just think you have a little growing up to do.
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While I partially appreciated what Stone was trying to do, I have to admit that I wasn't a big fan of this movie either. As a former football player, I was really hoping that Stone might be able to capture a more 3 dimmensional perspective of pro football. Unfortunately, Stone chose to showcase some of the more sensational aspects of pro football, without much else.
The best part of this movie was the speech Lawrence Taylor gave Jamie Foxx in the Sauna, when he talked about a man's need to be proud of all the years of his life, not just "the ones spent in the pads and the cleats." Coming from a real life Hall of Famer with a coke addiction, this moment was what the movie should really have been all about. But alas, it is just a passing theme.
Most people don't realize that Any Given Sunday shot more film than any other film in history, including Apocolypse Now, and had 3 editors. I wonder what was left on the cutting room floor, becuase the end product failed to be a cohesive vision, but rather more of an over-intellectualized concept of how Stone viewed pro football.
I don't have any problem with Stone showcasing the sensational, as there are real life INSTANCES of MOST of what was shown in Any Given Sunday. But for every Bill Romonowski, there is also a Mike Singletary, for every Al Davis, there are Owners dedicated to being an icon in the community, such as the owner of the Colts, whom Dungee exemplifies for this very reason in his autobiography.
Football has taken Baseball's place as America's National Past-time, and Stone misses the chance to explore why, by failing to examine life before and after pro-football for his characters, as well as the influence a pro-team can have on a community. When Dungee's son committed suicide, thousands of member of TAMPA BAY, his former team, turned out to support him. If you have watched a game at Lambeau Field, where the fans are 1000 times more committed than the criminal wannabes you will find at the Oakland Colliseum, you realize that like everything else in life, there are opposites co-existing in the same environment; this is what should have been included if Any Given Sunday was going to have any hope of being diametrically opposed, and as a consequence, authentic.
As it stands, it feels more like a VH1 Behind the Music expose.
I am absolutely amazed that this movie is only rated 6.5/10, I watched this movie in theaters in 99' and thought it was good. I've seen it two times since then, and I thought it was real good, and today I watched it for a 4th time, the first time in 3 years, and I picked up on a lot more this time around. This is an amazing movie. I'd rate it 9/10 easily now.. It's got such a great story, and the acting, writing, shooting, and directing is amazing.. Even though they are both completely different stories, shot in two different decades, Any Given Sunday rivals Platoon easily for Stone's best film.
what a great movie, its a shame its rated so low, i'm amazed.. I guess people really don't know good movies anymore.. probably why there is so much garbage coming out these days, with no quality anymore..
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"You will know my name is the lord,
when I lay my vengence upon thee"
'As a former football player, I was really hoping that Stone might be able to capture a more 3 dimmensional perspective of pro football'
Oddly enough, despite the differences in UK and UK football, both are a 2 dimensional sport.
The film still sucks on a level playing field, but the actors got paid, and the video is now in the 10pence bin at our local charity shop, next to the Katie Price stuff.
So yin and yang are back in order.
I saw this movie in '99 and have to admit that part of the disconnect now is that football has changed a lot. In '99 we were seeing the the highlights of football hits on ESPN, the big tackles of the day, NFL primetime reigned as showcasing the best show-off plays and team celebrations on touchdowns were becoming the norm (the Rams bob and weave come to mind). Today's football has tried to maintain a more professional look instead of the lights and sparkle of the 90's NFL. I still love this movie as it reminds me of this era of football. I think it captures the chaos of fame, money, ego, talent and simply lays it all out there for us.
Deterrence is the art of producing in the mind of the enemy... the fear to attack
i know someone already responded to this section by section, but I wanted to too. Firstly, remember this is a movie, so things may be a little overblown.. Also it is fictional league, they even mention the "cross town Dolphins" once.
A) For one, this movie is loosely based on a book (You're Okay, It's Just a Bruise: A Doctor's Sideline Secrets by Robert Huizenga) about shady sports doctors in the Raiders organization, which is why James Woods character is included. Considering that most of NFL practice is closed off to the media (they get a short session to watch on Wednesdays during the season), it is impossible to know whether or not doctors argue with players on the actually practice field. But yes it is true that doctors have tried to cover up injuries in order to have their players play, as is discussed in the aforementioned book.
B) Completely untrue, the vast majority of QBs began as backups and they all have some type of marketing deals.. be it local or nationwide. Tony Romo was crowned one of the best QBs in the league after only a few starts, Tom Brady won the Superbowl after replacing Bledsoe in the playoffs (Superbowl win = marketing deals for game winning QB), Aaron Rogers is a former backup who now starts on one of the most popular teams in the league. Not only this but a certain Brady Quinn, who has never made a single NFL start, is arguably on more commercials than any QB other than Peyton Manning. And remember, marketing deals are about selling a product with a recognizable face, not how good a player is.
As for the "hip-hop" song, the obvious hinderence to this is that there really isn't any time to make a video mid season. But its not unbelievable; Ron Artest asked for time off from basketball to focus on producing / music. And remember the infamous MiamiU rap? How about Shaq and his painful rapping career? There hasn't seemed to be one yet, but if a rookie qb had musical talent (or the marketability to be used by record producers to make a song and have people buy it), then why couldn't it happen? Just because it hasn't happened in real life doesn't make it unbelievable.
C) Paul Brown did once Modell bought the Browns. Schottenheimer in San Diego too for a more recent reference. If a team isn't winning, the coach is the first to hear it.
D) Well the O-Coordinator was brought in from Minnesota to succeed Tony D'Amato. There are currently two O-Coordinators in the NFL that are specifically there to succeed their Head Coaches (Jason Garrett and Jim Mora Jr). Most O-Coordinators do work directly under their Head coaches, but teams vary.
E) Like other guy said... Seattle Supersonics just did it a few months ago. The Browns did it moving to Baltimore and the Colts did it moving to Indianapolis. But I think the specific instance that the movie was based on was the Raiders move to Los Angeles. Al Davis wanted to move from Oakland to LA because he was unsuccessful in building improvements for the team's stadium. The owners voted against the move, but Davis tried to do it anyways, which led to the move eventually going to court and Davis getting his way (yea he was stubborn and boorheaded back then too). You are right the league has to approve the move, which is why Christina gets in trouble with the Commissioner and the Sharks do not move.
F) Again, its impossible to know what goes on inside of locker rooms at half time, since no one but players and coaches can go in. I hope you are correct that no owner goes nuts on their coach at half time in front of their players, but who knows. Remember this is a football drama, and that scene created drama and tension between Christina/Willie/Tony which is why it was included.
G) I didn't notice the dialogue being bad, they're all very arrogant and speak in such a manner. People speak differently in all different regions, so maybe where ever you live is different than that of the people in this film?
H) This is a fictional league, but in the NFL there is a such thing as Restricted Free Agents, which generally occurs after the player is in the league for 3 years. This means that a player can be tendered a contract by any team. The player's original team must then either offer the player a contract or lose the rights to him, and if they lose the rights to the player, they gain draft picks dependent on the player's new salary. Since the league is fictitious, I'm not sure what their contract policies are, but it seemed that Willie Beaman was in the league 2-4 years, which may have been just in time for him to hit the RFA market. Also, I cannot remember if D'Amato said Beaman was their new "Franchise" or "Franchised" Quarterback, but either way, it most likely meant that they were paying him enough so that the Sharks would not be able to afford to match the contract, especially with J-Man's 10 mil a year.
I) Players and coaches do argue.. I dunno, you see it on the sidelines if you watch football on TV and stuff. Remember how Steven Jackson basically got Scott Lenehan fired like 2 weeks ago (I know you wrote this before that happened). As for the audible, I'm guessing you're talking about when he first started playing. Tony D'Amato knew he called it, but couldn't do anything, since he was on the sideline and all.. he did chew him out afterward though. Yea not watching film is kind of shooting your career in the foot I agree, but I do believe that he said that to accentuate the fact that Beaman had raw talent for the game. Also, this wasn't the NFL, it was a rival league, so perhaps defenses just weren't as good. I don't think it takes much film studying to put up 30+ points on the Lions these days, zing.
Anyways, I love football, the game and its historical aspects, and I loved this movie... I'm only trying to help because I wish you'd love as much as I do. Just remember this isn't a documentary, its a drama, but one of the things I really liked about the movie was that a lot of it WAS based (some cases more loose than others) on real life events in the NFL. Just because Jack Rose is based on Jim Rome and Jim Rome was attacked by Jim Everett on his show and not a football coach on a practice field doesn't make this a bad film. Look at it with a wider lens.
I'm a big footbal fan, as well as a high school coach, and I really didn't like this movie. Some of it could be my dislike of all things Oliver Stone (realism and Oliver Stone are like oil and water); but I really can't put my finger on why I dislike this movie. I'll take Friday Night Lights, Remember the Titans, Rudy, heck even Necessary Roughness over Any Given Sunday. The ESPN series Playmakers is also very cool.
The Rome thing was cool though, Chris!
BOC777:
I am a huge football fan and I just do think this stuff is truly unreal.
Your disecting my takes point by point is fine provided you would address what I said.
A) A Doctor can not discuss a patients health in front of other people. Now the staff would be one thing as I am sure there are releases however I doubt they would argue on the sidelines during practice. This would be on ESPN 5 minutes later and a doc would probably lose his licensing.
B) Like I said...A 3rd string QB does not get a freaking huge marketing deal 2 games into his career while starting for an entrenched starter. If using Aaron Rodgers is not the same. He sat for 3 seasons and was the heir apparant...but I have not seen a single "hip-hop" gatorade commercial for him or Gus Frerotte or for that matter Matt Ryan or Joe Flacco. So it is nonsense.
C) etc etc etc...I could respond to every point but I just thought this was the worst movie ever...I can only suspend disbelief so much...But I am glad you enjoyed it.
This is the most ludicrous post I have ever read in my life.
Not one of those points is unrealistic, and all of them are assumptions on your part. It is impossible to say that any one of the things you mentioned could or would not happen. You clearly do not understand the game of football or movie making for that matter, and you could very possibly be a functioning retard.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion..........even idiots
High Tier Troll, 7/10
shareI think "sucked" is a little harsh...for me, the best way to describe this movie is "over ambitious." This movie just tried to do too much for one movie...there's three or four good movies inside this one but Oliver Stone just tried to tell a gargantuan story in one movie that really should have been three or four.
shareI think that what the OP is saying is that although he thought the movie sucked, he sucks more because he can't give reasons for the movie sucking.
shareI agree completely, this movie was a piece of crap.
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Sucked is a little harsh. But I can't stand the "quick cut" syndrome that's in movies. The funny part is if you look at Ben-Hur that gets spliced in. You see great long sequences that are very interesting, and never dull. Yet in this movie there's so many quick flash and cut sequences, its spoils the story (Not that there was much of one to begin with...).
The movie is over the top definately. I think a more cohesive story with more deeper characters would have worked better. It was worth it for Pacino's "inches" speach, but that was about all.
It's sad to see so many good actors, and so many lousy scripts. This could have been a great movie, but style killed the substance.
You suck, and I question your sexual preference.
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I think the most ridiculous part was how meteoric Beaman's success and fame came...2 games and he's this big star...after 2 games LOL.
Wayne Enterprises buys and sells companies like Stark Industries
Well he was suppose to be Michael Vick type player and Mike Vick is arguably the most exiting player to ever play QB, Willie was suppose to be something that football had never seen and the next evolution of QB so I would imagine it wouldn't take much more than 2 games for such a dynamic player to get popular.
Greatest Movie Line Ever: "GARBAGE DAY !"
This movie sucks the thin brown gruel out of Bigfoots colostomy bag.