They DID trick themselves... - Storm of the Century (1999) Discussion

[–] princess_chunx 14 years ago

I definitely agree with you! What else would he have meant when he said "Perhaps it was you who tricked yourselves?" Wasn't that a chilling exit. I loved this telemovie. Very deep, and twisted. Stephen King is amazing :)

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[–] lori-141 14 years ago

I think what he meant by "perhaps you tricked yourselves" is that they were all, except for Mike, actually hypocrites. They tricked themselves into believing they were good, devout people, but in their hearts, they were not.

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[–] yeoffthecat 14 years ago

Hello Wolfy,

Okay, say that they all held their stand, and NOT give up the children, with no religious mention whatsoever? I still believe that he couldn't have done anythng about it. BTW, I don't regard God as an inaginary friend, but that's beside the point. The only way he could have gotten the child was by the stipulations indicated. I didn't mean to offend you or anyone else with my statement about the Lord. So please think twice about breaking my jaw.

I live in a glass house, ergo, I throw no stones.

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[–] anaconda89 14 years ago

I agree with the OP.

It's been a while since I have watched this so I can't quite remember names of characters and such but I remember a scene where he tries to get someone to kill his girlfriend but the guy end up resisting and not doing it. This told me that he didn't have complete power over the townspeople and could've been beaten if they stood firm.

On a side note I don't want to break your jaw. I found it funny that Wolfey accused religious people of being redneck deuchebags then threatened to break your jaw, something I would expect a redneck deuchebag to do.

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[–] 14 years ago

[deleted]

[–] dakotashearer 13 years ago

WOLFY- Its people like you who make my faith stronger....You fight it soooo much..Every movie/board.forum you go to is to wine about the same thing..why they put GOD in it..The OP did because it was his right and yes i agree, If they would of had more faith in GOD, In themselves, and each other they would he would have left..It was all a scare tactic..Why Linoge did things before announcing himeself!!

GOD BLES WOLFY!!! :)

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[–] 13 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Hythlodaeus 13 years ago

"a slave mentality will tend to do that :))) "

An logical construct that Christopher Hitchens always put forward - but Hitchens also always accused religious people of doing what he did - which is basing his beliefs on what he wants to believe - he admitted this in various debates saying that he doesn't want to believe God, which has nothing to do with his purported completely objective logic.

What hump?

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[–] BakedEel 8 years ago

An logical construct that Christopher Hitchens always put forward - but Hitchens also always accused religious people of doing what he did - which is basing his beliefs on what he wants to believe - he admitted this in various debates saying that he doesn't want to believe God, which has nothing to do with his purported completely objective logic.

Maybe it doesn't, just as it doesn't for me. I don't believe in the Chrstian god for same reason I don't believe in any of the others: he's a mythological character, and mythologies are ancient allegorical stories about supernatural stuff, not accurate historical narratives. I also find the notion of the Christian god extremely unpleasant, and most (if not all) religious cosmologies to be profoundly limiting. The two things are not linked.
However, it DOES seem to me to be linked that people who believe in God usually find the notion of a world without the Christian god to be a grim, sad, hopeless idea... and that says a lot for why they choose to believe.

[truth]I am bisexual. If you dont like that: you can blow me. If you do: same deal.[/truth]

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[–] gallileo60 13 years ago

If you can believe in some evil dude with power, its just as easy to believe in God..Not that I do mind ya, but in this show they should have kept their belief in God, it might have saved them

You Have a Hard Lip, Herbert..

Better Living Thru Chemistry

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[–] AtheistRevolution 13 years ago

Well its easy to believe in god until they have to sacrifice themselves for that belief. Like the Fox News reporters that were captured and chose converting to Islam in place of dying.

Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by rulers as useful.

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[–] gallileo60 13 years ago

Well I would have "converted" to save my life even tho islam is a crock of crap...Hell, I would tell you anything to keep from dying, even tho I would not mean it...On the other hand they say there are no atheist in fox holes, so go figure...

You Have a Hard Lip, Herbert..

Better Living Thru Chemistry

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[–] king_of_bob 12 years ago

Well I would have "converted" to save my life even tho islam is a crock of crap..

Wow... That's just painfully ignorant. You're aware that Islam and Christianity are both Abrahamic faiths right? If Islam is a "crock of crap" then so is Christianity.

Prof. Farnsworth: Oh. A lesson in not changing history from Mr. I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!

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[–] gallileo60 12 years ago

I agree brain, Christianity is a crock, just not a dangerous one like islam....

You Have a Hard Lip, Herbert..

Better Living Thru Chemistry

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[–] Strazdamonas 11 years ago

they say there are no atheist in fox holes, so go figure

They lie. People do not become religiuos just because they are in danger. This is just a "Catchy line" to recruit you to religion without needing to use logic.
Besides, even if it were true that would be a very poor argument. As you yourself put it, you would ahve said anything to save your skin and you certainly wouldnt have meant it, so who is to say that the "christians" in fox holes are any different?
If anything, its just a second stage of grief - bargaining. in fact its the worst form of it - making deals with god.

---------------------------------------------
Applied Science? All science is applied. Eventually.

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[–] Hythlodaeus 13 years ago

Absolutely, and there have been countless Christians who've been martyred because they refused reject Christ.

May Atheists and Christians alike be tested and found sincere or else seek the truth and turn from their hypocrisy.

But as GK Chesterton said, the presence of a false Christian doesn't disprove the existence of God any more than a false bank note disproves the existence of the Bank of England.

What hump?

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[–] oldsalt61 13 years ago

Dot Hawk. Roanoke Island really did happen. In the movie when the reporter mentions it he says Roanoke, VA. At the time the English attempted to settle it that area was part of the VA colony. Today it would be in NC in the Outer Banks. The English came here and the colony failed once (disease, ill prepared, etc) and then they brought a second group over. When the resupply ship returned for this group they did find the settlement deserted and the word "CROATON" chiseled into a tree. The best guess is that the group assimilated into a local Indian tribe.

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[–] king_of_bob 12 years ago

False. Knowing that Linoge is there does nothing with regards to believing in any God. Since Linoge is physically there and there's no evidence of the existence of God.

And no, their faith would not have saved them. Again, did everyone who watched this forget about the Roanoke colony?

Prof. Farnsworth: Oh. A lesson in not changing history from Mr. I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!

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[–] mixedmed 11 years ago

Again, did everyone who watched this forget about the Roanoke colony?

So HE said. There's really no proof other than Linoge's word that he did it. He really didn't get into the details of what happened at Roanoke Island.

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[–] king_of_bob 11 years ago

Okay, so he can conjure storms, but you doubt that he could do what he claimed to have done before? He didn't have to go into detail, they all had a dream which showed them basically what happened. Linoge walked them into the Ocean.

The thing is, would you have the balls to hold out? We know for a fact that he's capable of mind control, we see it several times. So if he can control people, why do you question whether he would be able to make you walk into the ocean?

Prof. Farnsworth: Oh. A lesson in not changing history from Mr. I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!

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[–] NoahBody 11 years ago

king_of_bob
...derp deleted...

did everyone who watched this forget about the Roanoke colony?

You take him at his word that he caused that? Amusing what you have faith in.

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[–] ununchanged 14 years ago

"tricked themselves" pretty much means, he managed to make em believe there were no other options... there are many scenes that suggest he couldnt really have done what he threatened to do, or at least it wouldnt have been easy... and your right, why didn't he destroy the island afterall? then he wouldnt have had to worry about his secret beeing kept... i doubt this is about "faith in the lord"... more about courage and standing up for each other, faith in people? he obviously considers all people scum... maybe the way to beat him would have been focusing in the good in everybody...

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[–] koffeenkreame41-1 13 years ago

They tricked themselves, they should've listened to Mike. Linoge couldn't be trusted.

"I am the ultimate badass, you do not wanna `*beep*` wit' me!" Hudson in Aliens.

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[–] TheFatDruidofNacyl 13 years ago

The thing is even if he couldn't of killed them all he already had power over the children. At the very least it was let me raise and take care of one of your kids as my own. Give him power and long and happy life or all of your kids will die.

There is no proof that he couldn't simply go to a different town and find another kid. He may or may not have been as powerful as he claims but there was no sure way of knowing it. The story doesn't show a possible force of good that could help them. No science, or magic or faith strong enough to stop him.

On a silly note, too bad Dr. Who couldn't of shown up at the last minute and slapped him around.

Come visit my blackrosecastle.com
stephentheblackroseenterprises.com

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[–] zarreff 13 years ago

I think all of you had forgotten about Roanoke Island, the colony that had disappeared without a trace. It is hinted in the movie that Linoge destroyed Roanoke because they had refused him, and there is indeed no telling about what had happened to those colonists 400 years ago. Youd think that Linoge would have found a town willing to give up a child within that 400 year span but he didnt. It just goes to show the careful viewer that Linoge was not as powerful as he made himself appear to be. The true test of faith to the townspeople was to fight against Linoge even if it meant their death. They had damned themselves by giving up a child and allowing his evil "legacy" to continue.

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[–] dot-hawk 13 years ago

The thing about Roanoke Island was that they only found out about it from a dream that he projected into their heads. So no one really knows if it really existed. He wasn't as almighty as he tried portraying himself either, he tried to control Billy to kill Kat but at the last moment he failed. So with that you can only assume that if he tried controlling 200 people at the same time to commit suicide, not all of them would if he couldn't control on guy to kill someone. Very few probably would've committed suicide.

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[–] king_of_bob 12 years ago

It DID factually happen, in the real world. Go look up the Roanoke colony. Yes, we do know that it existed.

Prof. Farnsworth: Oh. A lesson in not changing history from Mr. I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!

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[–] mixedmed 11 years ago

It DID factually happen, in the real world. Go look up the Roanoke colony. Yes, we do know that it existed.

It did factually exist, but who knows if Linoge actually had anything to do with it's disappearance? The only "proof" is that he said he did. And of course that dream he projected in everyone's head. But what reason does anyone have to trust him? We know for a fact that he can project visions and hallucinations into people's minds. Why not use this historical fact combine with his ability to project visions to help back up his claim that he'll destroy the town?

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[–] king_of_bob 11 years ago

It did factually exist, but who knows if Linoge actually had anything to do with it's disappearance? The only "proof" is that he said he did.

What kind of proof do you need? We know he can control peoples minds. We know he can force people to do things they wouldn't normally, so what makes you question his story about the Roanoke colony?

And of course that dream he projected in everyone's head. But what reason does anyone have to trust him?

What makes you think it's about trust? Whether he was responsible for Roanoke or not, they're keenly aware that he's capable of mind control. Further, what reason would he have to lie about Roanoke? He factually held the children in a trance and could project dreams into peoples minds. Further, he was capable of making people do things. Mentioning Roanoke was simply giving the people in town an example of what could happen if they don't do as he asks.

Do you really think nothing would have happened if they refused to give him a child?

We know for a fact that he can project visions and hallucinations into people's minds. Why not use this historical fact combine with his ability to project visions to help back up his claim that he'll destroy the town?

The fact remains, nobody had any real reason to question his word. He's a murderer, sure, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's also a liar. Not only that, but he demonstrated his ability on multiple occasions. He even got a girl to kill the man she loved. If that isn't proof that he can control peoples minds, I don't know what more you needed.

Prof. Farnsworth: Oh. A lesson in not changing history from Mr. I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!

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[–] northernlad 11 years ago

I think you're forgetting that Linoge was EVIL and EVIL can NOT be trusted...no matter what.

Also, yeah he could control minds, but Billy Soames (sp?) resisted him and was able to over come it.

So yes...they did indeed trick themselves by believing an evil being and allowing him to torture them and have his way.

Life ain't easy when you're a Froot Loop in a world full of Cheerios.

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[–] antiglobe 13 years ago

COPY OF MY REPLY FROM THE OTHER TOPIC

Definitely the Billy episode shown that he can be resisted by strong personalities as he can be resisted by Mike and some others too. And just look how angry Linoge became when he failed with Billy. And he acted immediately to kill Billy not to have a chance for him to tell this to the others. So for sure Linoge could have been defeated by a communion of resisting people strong in soul. He just let the people believe it is not possible. I think it is so obvious that it was clear to me from the very start. Otherwise the movie loses it's point.

The point in this movie is actually that not the evil has defeated the good but the coward, weak, defeatist, and easy to manipulate bulk of people did it.

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[–] zarreff 13 years ago

"The point in this movie is actually that not the evil has defeated the good but the coward, weak, defeatist, and easy to manipulate bulk of people did it".

I agree, in the face of Death they gave in to his wishes. Like I said they damned themselves.

@dot-hawk

Roanoke colony was a real place, and they did all disappear without a trace with the only clue being the word "Croatoan" carved into a tree. I learned about Roanoke in middle school history class years before I actually watched this film. This knowledge made the movie that much more interesting to me.

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[–] 13 years ago

[deleted]

[–] WealthyMinded 12 years ago

I see what you mean when you said it is King playing on the Vampire myth, but I think it is also him taking an idea from the old saying "making a deal with the devil". It is known that along with the saying comes the common notion that nobody except the devil wins in every deal, that only good can defeat evil despite our past we can still make the right choice. I think that was main idea that King was trying to show the audience. Unfortunately everyone one in the town preferred to make a deal with the "devil" instead of risking their own lives for the greater good. Only Mike (full name Michael which means "Who is God? see Kings play on names and words- stroke of genius) had the faith to stand up against the evil and say no. Mike's wife and the other towns people represent the weakness that resides in the majority of human beings, the fear of death. That fear allowed them to be systematically controlled. None of them got to see Billy fight the temptation to kill his girl so they do not realize the temptation can be resisted... But, at the end of the day we have no idea what Stephen King would have intended to do, maybe if they said no they would have casted away the demon saved the town and redeemed themselves for choosing a great good for the whole community. Maybe they made the right choice and only one family had to suffer in the end (But we see that is not the case with the suicides and deaths). We do not truly know, and the fact that we are on this post trying to figure out if they were morally right proves to Kings prowess as a complex author and screenwriter. Sorry for this long response I was just sooo intrigued by this telemovie, I love movies that make me think like this.

Have a great day movie lovers!

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[–] samuelk30 12 years ago

The Vampyre thing is interesting,things I didn't understand, when Billy didn't kill Kat Linoge said he was a coward, I didn't get that. Linoge also refers to himself as the devil when he utters the phrase tell the truth and shame the devil. He also keeps telling Robbie Beal that his mothers waiting for him in hell, how would he know this if he wasn't the devil? The Dracula theme to me keeps being alluded to by his controlling the elements i.e. making trees fall on power lines and all other assorted things but that could have also been part of his powers I guess.

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[–] milo44 12 years ago

I don't think he was a vampire .. I guess if the devil had teeth , that's what they would look like .. lol .. and I didn't understand the phrase either when he called him a coward .. I enjoyed watching it today .. most of the time nothing but crap on cable .. but my favorite is " The Stand " .. I can watch that one over and over .. peace to you ..topkatnc .

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[–] ajjones-198-340523 12 years ago

I saw it the first time today. I read no vampire context into this movie at all. Those were multiple teeth not one set of fangs.

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[–] OgechiW 12 years ago

Just rewatched it for the millionth time, and I think the moment in which Linoge calls Billy a coward is the common (presumably) psychiatric break down of how a corrupt person views a moral one. To deny the temptation to kill someone who has upset you is seen as cowardice rather than strength. To Linoge, true strength would have been to give in. Or, you may assume that Linoge saw into Billy's mind and maybe Billy wanted to kill her and was maybe afraid of the consequences, though that could still be a strength to do what's right.

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[–] king_of_bob 12 years ago

What makes you doubt it? Are you forgetting the references to the Roanoke colony? He's done it before, what makes you think he wouldn't do it to this town?

Just because he's powerful doesn't mean he can just do whatever he wants. Supernatural entities always have weaknesses imposed on them. In this case, he cannot take a child, it must be given willingly.

Prof. Farnsworth: Oh. A lesson in not changing history from Mr. I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!

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[–] Cassandra_Speaker 11 years ago

We don't know that Linoge really had anything to do with Roanoke, he was probably just BSing to scare them. That whole thing about jumping them in the water was just an illusion, nothing more.

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=bL6IwVKuAoQ

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[–] king_of_bob 11 years ago

Sure. Our lives are being threatened, so lets just assume the guy threatening our lives is lying about everything.

That whole thing about jumping them in the water was just an illusion, nothing more.

And you base this assumption on what, exactly? They had a vision of what would happen if they refused him. We know for a fact that he's capable of making people kill themselves, so why is it such a leap to think he could make them jump into the ocean?

Prof. Farnsworth: Oh. A lesson in not changing history from Mr. I'm-My-Own-Grandpa!

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[–] Cassandra_Speaker 10 years ago

And you base this assumption on what, exactly?

He couldn't even make Billy kill Kat (it wasn't because he was a coward). He made her kill HIM because she was already angry, but if one person can resist like that it means he's not that tough.

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=bL6IwVKuAoQ

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[–] drxcreatures 10 years ago

I agree they could have stood up to him. So many people care about self image though, even if it hurts them or others. This was sort of a lesson.

http://www.cgonzales.net & http://www.drxcreatures.com

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[–] yvesyves (697) a year ago

Exactly , couldnt have wrote it better!!

it's not because he has amazing supernatural skills that he can actually do everything he wants; may be he can control and kill kids but cannot force one to become his student or heir.

all in all the question is : is it better to sacrifice 1 rather than to have to take the risk of MAY BE have more than 200 die; since nobody knew or knows whether he really could kill them all.

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