against torture? If they tortured him, they could have got the info and could have saved lives so it's weird how Hub is against saving lives just because a killer would have to be tortured into giving up info to do it. Yes Devereaux did kill him, which I didn't see that part of the movie cause of tv edits or something, but I'm just talking about the torture particularly.
shareno offence but did you watch the film? In that very same scene he goes into great detail of why he's against it, and the main point is that 'this is what the terrorists want'. If they torture the suspect they'll be doing exactly what they want, and the terrorists will have won.
shareYa but I didn't think Hub was right on that. They actually want to be tortured? If so then we shouldn't mind if it may still give us anwers into saving lives. They still had to torture him to save further loss of life possibly. But not torturing him since that what he would want?? That's like not giving a murderer jail time cause he wants to go to jail.
shareAt that point they had no idea who this guy was other than that he was somehow connected to one of the bus bombers. You called him a killer. Where in the movie do they say that? They thought the guy they chased at the beginning of the movie was a terrorist, until they did some police work and it turned out he was a naive delivery boy for the terrorists. Throw in the fact that the guy who was tortured and killed was a US citizen and you've got a problem. Devereaux didn't torture him because they knew he knew something. Devereaux tortured him simply because he had nothing else to go on. Remember how they got the name for the guy who they tortured? The CIA informant/suicide bomber gave it to them. Hardly a reliable source as it would turn out.
shareThey tortured and murdered an innocent man.
Samir lied to distract attention from him and to activate the next cell, in this case the one who had the grenade and who used it to detonate the house and kill a lot of people in there, among them several FBI agents.
Also torture often leads to bad information people will say anything to prevent further torture. And they didn't really have time to really pursue "good" torture, pretty much no matter what they did the guy (if it was indeed the actual guy they were looking for) knew he only had to hold out so long before another attack.
What we know by faith can't be proven by logic
-William of Ockham
Okay my bad. I watched the movie again, and thought the guy was the bad guy who was captured before. I didn't know he was innocent.
shareLooking at both the movie and reality with the current War on Terror, even if he had been guilty or had been a terrorist, it still would have been wrong for a variety of reasons.
1. It makes us hypocrites. For us to look down on these people for their violations of freedoms and human rights and then do the same things they do.
2. The character, Tariq Hueseini, was only suspected of a crime. He wasn't convicted or even formally charged with anything, and, yet, he was arrested, detained, tortured, and murdered simply because he might have done something wrong.
3. Torture is unreliable. Contrary to what you see on "24", and as great a show as it is, you can't just torture someone and then get vital intel necessary to stop a terrorist attack. If you want a TV show to tell you how it is, a better one is "Burn Notice." As the character Michael Westen says, when he's asked if he's going to torture someone who has information he needs, he replies, "Torture just gets you the fastest lie to make the pain stop," even though he usually faces the same ticking time bomb scenarios that Jack Bauer does on "24". Even John McCain admitted that when he was being held as POW in Vietnam, under torture he confessed to untrue things. You torture someone long enough, they'll confess to being the reason milk goes sour.
4. Like Nietzsche said, "He who fights monsters should take care not to become a monster." Even in realty with the current War on Terror, it does us no good to defeat radical Islamic extremism only to become just like them in order to do so.
"Ninja monkeys are meeting as we speak, plotting my demise."
There is no evidence of which I am aware that torture produces quality information that saves lives. It frequently produces lots of bad information. In a "ticking time bomb" situation I would be okay with it if there was no time for anything else. But I really would not expect it to produce solid data.
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