MovieChat Forums > The Siege (1998) Discussion > Prophetic film, like 1000% percent (yes,...

Prophetic film, like 1000% percent (yes,a thousand)...

posted 12 years ago by al666940-3
24 replies | jump to latest

I love this film,e specially after 9/11.

It showed many things that really came true:
1.- The FBI (law enforcement) is indeed shown as the better tool against terrorism (by know it's obvious it's best fought as criminal activity, not by gunships or drones that kill one and create 100 new ones due to collateral damage)
2.- The military WILL abuse any new powers (torture), especially if turned against its people. There's a reason why they're not allowed to police US citizens.
3.- The military neocons are MUCH to blame for this wave of terrorism (you keep kicking a rabid dog, you better expect it to retaliate, big time). There's more than one way to skin a cat, and the less macho He-man ways usually work best.
4.- The CIA CREATED/TRAINED/ENABLED today's terrorists by using them as allies in yesterday's wars, by thinking "the enemy of my enemy MUST be my friend today and tomorrow NO MATTER WHAT THEIR ACTUAL INTERESTS MAY BE"
5.- The US is far more coward than say Britain, Israel, Spain and many other countries where terrorism also occurs yet its people do not fight it stupidly by lashing out of fear (giving away their liberties for a false sense of security).
6.- It sure sucks to be an Arabic/Muslim/middle eastern looking person (hindu, persian, etc) in the US. You just never know when your fellow citizens will turn on you.

[–] figaro8 12 years ago

An "Arabic" you mean Arab (Arabic is the language), Muslim/eastern looking person has it great in USA. You know it! Look at the motorcar mechanics in the tristate area of New York City. Look at Dearborn Michigan. They have it made here, because the system protects them, and the politically correct pop culture worships them. 9/11 was the best thing to happen to the Muslims in USA, because they all of a sudden were relegated to the position of being persecuted, because of 19 hijackers..... But Europe, is another thing altogether. Watch and see in the next decade or so, what will happen to Muslims there.

[–] al666940-3 12 years ago

Let me guess, then Hitler and the Holocaust was the best thing that happened to Jews worldwide?

Just want to know how far you're willing to follow your own logic...

[–] figaro8 12 years ago

As long as it takes, to see the West realize the error of it's ways insofar as the ideology of Political Correctness is concerned.

[–] al666940-3 12 years ago

I'll assume you're serious and not trolling, so I'll give you a serious reply.

1.- Muslims in the USA do not really compare to muslims in Europe, know why? In USA they are about as accepted and as integrated as they can possibly be, thus most of them actually feel like Americans who happen to practice Islam, unlike their counterparts in Europe who feel relegated to second rate citizen class and guettos, and thus do not integrate and resent their host countries.

THAT is why Islamic extremism/fundamentalism is rampant in Europe but not in the USA.

Think about it, why do you thing 14 of the 19 9/11 hijackers were foreign and from Saudi Arabia? Obviously they couldn't find capable native volunteers and had to import them from abroad. What does that tell you? They have no such problems in Europe.

Even Bush and the Republicans back then realized the Muslim community in the USA was their biggest asset against extremism and terrorism, precisely because it's not radicalized nor marginalized, and thus has loyalty to the US before any imam or nutcase in Saudi Arabia.

So as long as the USA precisely doesn't follow the Europe model and marginalize/antagonize their Muslim community, we're pretty much good. I mean, how many terror attacks have we had really from native Islamic terrorists? Counting out the ones where the US agents are very suspected of having instigated them (you know, entrapment). Sure a couple shootouts (Hassan) and a dumbass shoe idiot, but nothing above that.

Heck we've had many more right wing terror attacks and plots (the guy who drove his plane into the IRS building, the militia guys who ambushed cops, the neonazis threatening to kill Obama, the museum shooter, etc).

I would be more concerned about them instead. Last I checked Koresh, McVeight and the guys above didn't come from abroad. They were 100% native American citizens.

[–] olaf110 12 years ago

today israel gets billions of $ from germany every year. I guess yes. the survivors made it. there is no Business than shoa Business. it is an israeli saying.
i am not joking .

http://www.gilad.co.uk/writings/there-is-no-business-like-shoa-business.html

[–] RothmanMax 9 years ago

😁😁😁

nobody lives forever...

[–] aimot 9 years ago

Frank Sinatra gave it a shot

( Heist, 2001 )

[–] activista 8 years ago

@figaro8

Most of the Muslims (Arab-Americans) in Dearborn and the Detroit area have been in that area for over five or six generations now----so to say "the system protects them" as if they have some kind of special protection is a bunch of nonsense. They're hard-working,tax-paying Americans like the rest of us. That still dosen't keep them from getting profiled because they're Arab, or "flying while Arab", which is a term for getting profiled every time you're Arab-American and going anywhere on a plane.

[–] Cinnamental 12 years ago

Agreed.

[–] leobourne 12 years ago

I could not agree more. I saw this film first when it was released in theatres and it did not mean much to me then. But three years later 9/11 happened. They would have planned the operation for years but this film gives goose bumps on accuracy of being prophetic. Including Gitmo. Great work.

[–] The_Blu_Ray_Penguin 12 years ago

You lost all credibility calling the USA cowards. Misguided at times, too focused on other countries issues sure. But one thing we are not is cowards. Hah id love to see ANY country or COUNTRIES try to invade us n see what happens. If anyone thinks the insurgents in Iraq or Afghanistan are a threat we would be a living *beep* nightmare of hell on earth for any invading forces. And you can dam well bet as divided we are politically here we would asap snap to and become one serious united hammer on anyone trying to take our country from us. Good luck ever seeing that in those sandpiles. They are the cowards, they hate us because we live well, work well together and have an excellent overall system of life here. And for those who whine n moan about how crappy they have it here, they are in the vast minority and can gtfo asap. In Afghanistan they live in a mentality of poor us we always get picked on we hate everything and were angry over something all the time bs. They had murderous dictators running their government and we try to help them achieve freedom and what *beep* thanks do we get but IEDs n suicide bombing dip $ hitz. Some people just want to live in a constant state of anger and victim mentality. And you say were cowards. Hah the soviets ran but were still there sacrificing trying to help idiots that would rather kill us than thank us.

[–] pdlussier1 11 years ago

LOL! What a simplistic, uninformed take, proving that American exceptionalism and your absurd 'manifest destiny' concept are still being bought into, supported by the blindly patriotic and/or the ignorant(?).
And I'm not referring to the coward/brave part as I've no comment on that, but to your underlying assumption that any nation where the US imposed its military might owes you a 'thank you' for your so-called spread of freedom and democracy. You honestly think 'aid' and 'goodwill' are at the root of your very imperialistic foreign policies and explain any of the hypocrisy behind its financially self-serving applications??? I can think of nothing but counter-examples, from the careful selection of countries that have seen US involvement; the manufacturing of conflicts; having backed countless despots; the willful disregard of nationalistic movements and squashing the direct, majority wants of any populace not in line with US industrial ambitions; the refusal to sign or ratify UN and globally-supported conventions, treaties, and international laws designed to promote peace, non-violence, or that address health concerns, such as the Anti-Personnel Mine Ban Convention or the Convention on the Rights of the Child, for starters, as well as a refusal to adhere to the same non-proliferation rules as all, etc., etc.

People don't just wake up one day and decide to be terrorists 'cause they envy Americans and their "excellent overall system"! If Reagan had imposed his cronies' will here as he did in the Middle-East, wonder how many Canadians would be terrorists if exploding bombs was our only means of retaliation (FLQ and October Crisis ring a bell?)? Or vice versa if an Arab state forced itself on the US... (remember how quick the Occupy movement was to select Guy Fawkes (a terrorist, pure and simple) as their unspoken mascot?) There's a cause and reason behind such terrorism as what's addressed here, and though I don't condone such actions, there's far more behind them then just being wild-eyed and crazy and bad mentalities.
Keep in mind that not everyone in the world wants the "American way of life"--and here I'm not passing judgement on, or criticizing, Americans, just stating the reality--and the US is far from welcomed in all the places where troops descend then police the people in much the same way, and far worse, than they did in N.Y. (in film); places where troops would be welcomed and justifiably needed, they don;t 'visit' unless part of some UN coalition that's too late and/or barely efficient.

And how is the US's highly-uncalled-for drone campaign in Pakistan (to name just one) that's now, as of today, been going on for precisely 9 years, 7 months, 3 weeks, and 3 days, and which is heavily shunned by Amnesty International for indiscriminately killing many unarmed individuals and civilians of all ages, how is that anything different or superior to terrorism and why should anyone be thankful for that?

Ignorance is bliss... 'til it posts on the Internet, then, it's annoying.

[–] Destinata 9 years ago

Hah id love to see ANY country or COUNTRIES try to invade us n see what happens.

We'll invite them in, and roll out the red carpet for them, just as they did in Europe. Heck, we already have. No one knows who all has come across our border, but they do know that some of them might be terrorists. The Tsarnaev brothers, the Boston Marathon bombers, were here to get an education -- and kill us, of course.

If anyone thinks the insurgents in Iraq or Afghanistan are a threat we would be a living *beep* nightmare of hell on earth for any invading forces.

We ARE brave. And they are cowards, hiding behind women and children and blending into the peaceful Muslim population. There was no "chatter" before the Parisian attacks. None of the attackers' friends or relatives said a thing to protect the citizens of the country that had extended them welcome. That makes them accomplices.

The thoughtful person watching this movie -- especially after Paris, Nov. 13, 2015 -- has to ask: "Okay. So how DO you deal with them?" An NSA that's more concerned about people like the Tsarnaev brothers than they are about finding out who's in "Friends of Abe" would have been a nice start. We were warned about the Tsarnaevs by the Russians, for pity's sake.

But beyond doing what should have been obvious, what do we do? Start profiling? That's the next obvious course. And then you have the ACLU howling that it's so unfair to be singling out Muslims for wiretapping just because they come from the Middle East and have had known dealings with CAIR, which has known dealings with terrorists.

So it will be a lot of "We can't violate their rights," even though we've been at war with them even before 9/11 as this 1998 movie shows.

What does a country that's had a President who's made all the wrong moves, has not protected our sovereignty by protecting our borders, who's cut the military to the bone, and has spent his time thinking the real enemy are members of the Tea Party, what does a country do at this point -- close the barn door after the horse has bolted?

That's where France is. And we're making plans to bring thousands of Syrian "refugees" to this country. We're going to vet them, supposedly -- this country, that had 110% turn outs in some precincts in the last Presidential election. We can't prevent voter fraud in our own country. Do you think we can properly vet hordes of Syrian refugees? And what about the people like the Tsarnaevs who are already here?

We are brave. No question about that. But what does a country do when common sense precautions have not been taken and the enemy is already within the gates? Just talk about how fearmongers are the only ones who have anything to say against that Trojan Horse?

When evil is viewed as good, righteousness is viewed as evil.

[–] da3ley (231) 7 years ago

good post.

[–] nerhal1 11 years ago

You forget a lot of the military have families in this country and have sworn to uphold the constitution of the United States. The portrayal of soldiers as robots going after American citizens is typical of Hollywood and although some abuse of power is a likelyhood it is unlikely all soldiers would follow orders going against said family and nation.

[–] michaeluk26 11 years ago

I just watched it for the first time and was amazed at how accurate this film was with what happened after 9-11 however,

Al Qaeda's war against America started because Bin Laden felt insulted that the Saudis asked the Americans to intervene on behalf of Kuwait to repel the invasion from Iraq. He wanted to use his Mujahideen from Afghanistan and was told know. This snub started it all. So dont blame America for doing that. We sure as hell made it worse though by invading the hell hole known as Iraq. Trust me, I served in 2007-2008 and our occupying that country brought extremists from everywhere to fight us.

The Mujahideen we backed in Afghanistan was done because we were in a very dangerous cold war with Russia. Anyone who oppossed them we supported. They were the evil at the time. There was no way to predict they would turn on us. Plus, the Mujadieen was made up of numerous different types of fighters.

You can sure as hell blame the Iraq war on the Neo Cons though. That was their plan since the 90's. We wrecked that country to such a degree that I cant explain it to you, its just something you would have to see in person. I only went to get money for school and I am very proud to have served in Iraq. We all knew the war was bogus but since there was nothing we could do about that, we just told ourselves lets try and get the best outcome from a terrible situation.

Drone strikes? They can be an example of creating terrorists but they also allow those wanted fugitives shelter and hidden. Literally, they fight in Afghanistan and jump back across the border. Its the jackasses using those people as cover who are mostly at fault. There are pros and cons to the drones.

Haters gonna hate

[–] SausagePourVous 11 years ago

You mention six Points in your post. Calling the film prophetic to 100%...no,a thousand. Yet,you are too politically correct to even mention the one big prophecy....the big attack killing 543 or so people. You danced around that one tiny detail and focused on exactly Everything around it. You sort of mention it in passing,which is less then brave.

When referring to The siege as prophetic,many factors come into play and a few events. Blowing up a big building is one of them for most people who´ve seen this film. But you direct all your issues and criticism towards the states,military and CIA etc,alone...on one side of the coin you have the abuse of Power,the prejudice,the training and support of an enemys enemy..and on the other a Little attack. That part was not on your top 6 list.

[–] derekm23 10 years ago

Prophetic about the politics of fear... This idea that to protect civilians, they must take away freedoms in the name of security. This film shows that patronising idea, that civilians are not prepared to take casualties in defense of what they have, justifies the removal of what civil wars and revolutions have been fought for. This may be indeed easier to do in U.S.A where 911 is the only significant recent involvement of civilians, but from direct family experiences, civilians are made out of the same tough stuff as the military. Whats 911? its only a weeks air raid on Liverpool that my parents with stood an then kept on keeping on. Lets get real, we civilians take more casualities on the commute to work.
So, keep shopping till they blow up your local mall and your car, then take the bus to the one on the other side of town, but dont let the authorities take the fundamentals of your way of life away, as that is the real defeat.

(p.s. U.S. try to keep up with the revolution count, you are down 1 to 2 and several on civil wars, but i dont doubt if push comes to shove you are made of the same stuff as the rest of us. )

[–] TamPalm 10 years ago

OMG I just stumbled upon this movie playing right now on Spike. They just showed the scene when Denzel' s character pleads with Bruce Willis' character not to torture the prisoner. I actually had to pull up the cable guide to check the year. WOW this movie was released like FIVE years before Iraq. Op I too was astonished at how prescient it is! I am literally sitting here in awe right now. It really foreshadowed things to a tee.

"If it doesn't make sense, it's not true." -- Judge Judy