Pro-Lifers make me sick. - The Cider House Rules (2000) Discussion

[–] themadpatriot 11 years ago

go's the same for both side's
Usually the people that want protect cold blooded murders are the same people that want to abortion innocent babies who has done nothing

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[–] Degree7 11 years ago

You will be on the wrong side of history themadpatriot.

Limit of the Willing Suspension of Disbelief: directly proportional to it's awesomeness.

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[–] themadpatriot 11 years ago

what makes you think this debate will ever end?

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[–] Degree7 11 years ago

It will end,

just as of mankind is slowly coming to the realization that religious fanatics are wrong, and that supporting war-mongering politicians are wrong, and that colonialism was wrong, and rape-culture was wrong, and countless other things that human beings in their infinite wisdom have blindly supported for hundreds of years....

In the future when our race are made up of much more accepting, knowledgeable, and intelligent beings, they will look back on topics like this and shake their heads in disbelief and aggravation that anyone could fall to the wrong side of it. That's you, by the way.

Limit of the Willing Suspension of Disbelief: directly proportional to it's awesomeness.

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[–] themadpatriot 11 years ago

in till some laws change this debate will keep going on. a father has next to no rights to
his unborn child. So I have no rights what so ever as a father to my unborn child but when that child is born I have to pay child support? I thought I had no rights! This doesn't make any sense to me at all.
I'm not talking about my rights to make a women have an abortion I'm talking about my rights to keep a women from killing my child.

we have an almost 100 year old gun debate going on .what makes you think this debate will be different?

First off people that are pro life because religious fanatics. is just a stereotypes there are many people from all walks of life that are pro life there are many Atheist that are pro life so it's not a
religious thing.

I hate to break the news to you people are still supporting war-mongering politicians Bush was one and so is obama

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[–] rascal67 9 years ago

I'm not talking about my rights to make a women have an abortion I'm talking about my rights to keep a women from killing my child.
_______________
It would all depend on the circumstance and it would be something that needs to be discussed openly and honestly. Laws are not going to change a darn thing though. At the end of the day, the female is the one carrying the embryo\fetus and it is her body and her life first and foremost. If the woman doesn't want to be with you and doesn't want the child either, she still doesn't have to carry it around for you, just because of your "rights" and own entitlments. In spite of all the free passes and pampering that our western society can give to women over men, and as much as they complain and whine about this non-existent "inequality" thing, where her body and health is concerned, she should get power of attorney, figuratively speaking.

Exorcist: Christ's power compels you. Cast out, unclean spirit.
Destinata:💩

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[–] InherentlyYours 9 years ago

"in till some laws change this debate will keep going on. a father has next to no rights to
his unborn child. So I have no rights what so ever as a father to my unborn child but when that child is born I have to pay child support? I thought I had no rights! This doesn't make any sense to me at all.
I'm not talking about my rights to make a women have an abortion I'm talking about my rights to keep a women from killing my child."
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Do you have to pay child support if you're not married? You're right, it's a double-standard, but why are you having a child when you know the risk? Indirectly, it's one symptom of whats wrong with couples having children without being married. There was a time when being born out of wedlock was considered sensational, and now seems to be the majority. Society thinks anything traditional must be thrown by the wayside. Society is more selfish than ever.

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[–] uponsilverwings 9 years ago

Not your body, not your decision. End of story.

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[–] groovyroom 11 years ago

Degree 7, agree with you wholeheartedly. I always ask pro lifers how many kids they've adopted out of the foster care system or how many juveniles they have visited in prisons since they are so behind bringing every unwanted baby into the world. So far my track ready is pretty good, can't find one who has! Hypocrites to the upteempth degree!

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[–] reneehedden 11 years ago

Groovyroom, you make a good point, about pro-lifers adopting foster children or visiting juveniles in prison. However, although I haven't adopted any foster children, I HAVE been responsible enough to not have any children I don't want or can't care for. I'm not adding to the problem.

There are many people who have adopted unwanted children. Keep looking, I'm sure you'll find some. I know of several cases on a personal level.

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[–] reneehedden 11 years ago

When our race is much more knowledgeable and intelligent, they will be smart enough to not have an unwanted pregnancy in the first place.

(I say that in absence of rape, incest, etc.)

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[–] Degree7 11 years ago

Good point!

But until then, why split hairs?

Limit of the Willing Suspension of Disbelief: directly proportional to it's awesomeness.

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[–] itsallforu 11 years ago

Lots of arguments back and forth. Both sides of the issue have made some good points, but some of the arguments are just invalid.

I see absolutely no reason whatsoever why a person who is against abortion should be obligated to in turn be against the death penalty. I don't get that argument at all. While I myself am against the death penalty, it is illogical to compare it to abortion. The entire basis of the issue is innocence vs guilty.

Honestly the argument is like saying that if I have the ability to serve in the army and shoot an enemy soldier, then I should also be able to walk up to my neighbor after work and shoot him as well.

If you can't see there is a vast difference between shooting someone in a war, and shooting your neighbor something is drastically wrong with you.

People who are put to death in this country are put to death because of the wrong, evil and severely negative things that they did. It isn't a form of punishment that I would use, but it is a form of punishment.

Abortion is nothing at all like the death penalty, and especially shouldn't be compared to the death penalty by individuals who don't look at the fetus as a life anyway. The only way something can be put to death is if it were alive to begin with.

As for the arguments that the pro-life side uses, why keep arguing the argument of God? If anything that is detrimental. If someone is Christian, with exception to the fit-in Christians, they are already not for abortion.

As an agnostic, I'd just as soon that everyone used contraception all the time and that it was more readily available and cheap for women to use. If so, then abortion would be truly rare and not enough of an issue, if even an issue at all to concern ourselves about.

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[–] Degree7 11 years ago

People who are put to death in this country are put to death because of the wrong, evil and severely negative things that they did. It isn't a form of punishment that I would use, but it is a form of punishment.

OT: Surely the purpose of punishment is for the perpetrator to learn from their misdeeds? They're not going to learn a lot from it if they're dead.

Limit of the Willing Suspension of Disbelief: directly proportional to its awesomeness.

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[–] itsallforu 11 years ago

Degree7 - I agree with that. I'm not for the death penalty myself, but understand clearly that it is way, way different from abortion.

A more logical comparison would be if a person were for the holocaust death gas chambers, but then against abortion. That should be the argument that is used. Although with exception to a few honest antisemitic individuals, I highly doubt you'd get anyone to ever admit that. Probably because there aren't hardly any people alive today who are pro gas chambers for innocent people, who didn't do anything wrong.

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[–] Ironman54 10 years ago

You are against 'war' even though the war may be saving 1000s if not 10s of thousands of lives yet you have no problem with having a little human ripped/cut/sucked apart - the ultimate hypocrisy !! But you know that 'logic' (lack thereof) is coming because Degree7
somehow thinks that everyone must be ready to adopt a child or visit kids in jail.
'Degree'? I presume you are one of the newer generations who learned total garbage in college. This is why our countries are having such trouble.
Reminds me of the people who cheered that jerk Michael Moore (puke) who shoved a microphone in politicoians faces and asked them if their child served in the military and, if not, why not ? As if their voting to go to war was somehow a hypocritical decision because their own child never enlisted. Now I know that any of you reading this (who were educated before our schools were taken over by left wing nut jobs) see the illogical argument Moore constructed straight away BUT, for our 20 something skulls full of mush:
A father can not force their son/daughter to join the military any more than you or I can.
Anyone with an ounce of 'logic' in their brains never needed to be told this ...
Its scary isn't it ??

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[–] Degree7 10 years ago

Are you joking? Most wars have cost thousands of lives, and for no reason or benefit, other than to fill the pockets of a select few.

You strike me as a baby boomer that leaches off the younger generation, sucking up the social security checks like its never-ending.

~ I've been very lonely in my isolated tower of indecipherable speech.

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[–] deephouse412 10 years ago

IRONMAN doesnt get it. I dont think you do either though.(Thats not fair of me to say, i didnt read ANY of your posts) Pro life, pro choice. Its just an issue to keep us embroiled in our own emotions. This is not as simple as "murdering babies" or "cherishing life". The issue is ridiculously deeper than that.(Partial life... late term etc.) The Gov't wants you to believe that this issue only has two sides. Its far more complex than that, but its not even that important anymore. Pro choice won and it will stay that way in America until the end of time. The Gov't wants you to believe there is still a debate here to keep tensions high on a touchy issue to distract you from other things that they are doing. They are segregating us with issues like this. There is nothing on the "abortion plate" left but bones to pick at. I dont mean to sound insensitive. NOW I AM distracted, so ill rant...Pro-Lifers shouldnt make you sick. They have a right to express their opinion. You have a right, and hopefully enough sense, to ignore it and move on to something more important. Sometimes they dont express themselves in a way that a tolerant human being would deem appropriate and what i DO have a VERY VERY hard time ignoring is the protesters in front of abortion clinics. They dont know if these women were raped or why they are deciding to have an abortion. Freedom of speech goes both ways. I Feel super bad for those women. Unfortunately we have to tolerate it. Its one freedom we havent been stripped of yet. Im, very selfishly, sometimes thankful for those people protesting at the clinic. Their disgusting behavior makes me feel i have the right to act wildly inappropriate & it makes me feel good to tell someone like that something like "i wish they were aborted." Using their own scripture on them always messes with their head a little bit too. Funny how you never see THOSE "non violent" protesters getting pepper sprayed by policemen?? People..... 90% of them should be deemed legally blind.

What business is it of yours... where Im from, Friend-O.

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[–] Degree7 10 years ago

Yeah yeah, "hot button topics" and all that, but I still believe there are too many stupid laws preventing women from seeking basic reproductive rights.

The American government is a failure of a legislature, and the sooner we get big money out of politics the better.

~ I've been very lonely in my isolated tower of indecipherable speech.

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[–] deephouse412 10 years ago

I agree with you 100 % that the american Gov't is a total failure on its best day and big changes need to be made. What laws are you referring to though that are keeping women from seeking basic reproductive rights?

What business is it of yours... where Im from, Friend-O.

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[–] Degree7 10 years ago

Every been to Mississippi?

~ I've been very lonely in my isolated tower of indecipherable speech.

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[–] deephouse412 10 years ago

Once... for about four hours. Do you live there? I know that state laws differ, but what can you tell me specifically that you would like to see changed on this issue? the last bill to be signed favoring a pro-choice measure in mississippi was a mid pregnancy abortion ban if conception was past 20 weeks. Thats five months. That seems reasonable to me. Im 100% pro choice. Four months should be plenty of time to decide. However, i just read that there is only ONE clinic in the entire state. Is that the only place one can have an abortion in the entire state though?? If so, thats not right. The South is pretty radical. This is just a political debate for me, if its personal for you, i apologize.

What business is it of yours... where Im from, Friend-O.

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[–] sfrsez 11 years ago

there are very few people in this world who should have kids. most are too stupid ugly and poor

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[–] Amills23 11 years ago

Wrong side of history? You have to be kidding. Planned parenthood who started this "crusade" did it to practice eugenics on mostly black women. You pro-baby killers out their are no different than the pro-slavery movement that said African Americans were subhuman so they didn't deserve any rights. Science is on our side the baby is a separate living being from day one. The baby has rights in the womb. That's why someone can't punch a pregnant women in the stomach and cause a miscarriage and only get assault they will be charged with murder. That's why the baby has medical rights in the womb why doctors error and pills that cause damage in the womb they can sue for damages. That's why if a pregnant women does hard drugs can be charged with child endangerment. That's why if a pregnant women delivers the child and slaughters it right out the womb is charged with murder that is for now maybe not in the near future if you murders get your way. Yet if she rips the child apart seconds earlier its legal. Your kind is disgusting you have lost the inherit need to care for your own children. Closer to immoral beasts than humans.

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[–] Degree7 11 years ago

Well it's obvious you don't understand science, so your argument can be ignored,

Limit of the Willing Suspension of Disbelief: directly proportional to its awesomeness.

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[–] Tothevalleywego 11 years ago

How would you feel if you knew your life was only measured by the woman carrying you? That you are not of value because you can't defend yourself? That you could be easy thrown away because she didn't or couldn't take care of you? Nor did she care enough for you to give birth and give you to a loving family. No just get rid of the thing. How would you feel if you found out the only reason you are alive is because your mother couldn't get the 500 dollars to scrape your parasitic carcass out of her uterus?

A woman has a right to her reproduction organs BEFORE she places such a responsibility on herself. With so many options and resources to NOT get pregnant and after getting pregnant I think abortions send a very damaging message. It tells people they can be irresponsible without thinking about the consequences because it only takes a few scrapes off the wall to get rid of "it". It teaches people to be ignorant about the preventive information out there. And not only that but you can do more then get pregnant with unprotected sex. I hear some STI's are permanent unlike a pregnancy.

Stop being bias and viewing abortion through your political eye-ware. We're talking about a future we are destroying here. The ones already present seeing this behavior and the ones already lost to us. We are killing our opportunities and why? Because a woman has a right to be ignorant about preventive information? Because a woman has a right NOT to get birth control but the right to an abortion? Why is society taking the easy way out? What has happen to the responsible adults?

It's sad when you are stupid but it's a shame when you are ignorant.

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[–] Degree7 11 years ago

How would you feel if you knew your life was only measured by the woman carrying you? That you are not of value because you can't defend yourself? That you could be easy thrown away because she didn't or couldn't take care of you? Nor did she care enough for you to give birth and give you to a loving family. No just get rid of the thing. How would you feel if you found out the only reason you are alive is because your mother couldn't get the 500 dollars to scrape your parasitic carcass out of her uterus?

This is just hilarious. My friend, if you never existed, you very well couldn't be p*ssed off about it, could you? You're talking about some kind of existential conundrum, essentially a non-argument. Are you sad that your non existent brother died gasping and flopping about in the palm of your dad's teenage hand?

With so many options and resources to NOT get pregnant and after getting pregnant I think abortions send a very damaging message. It tells people they can be irresponsible without thinking about the consequences because it only takes a few scrapes off the wall to get rid of "it". It teaches people to be ignorant about the preventive information out there. And not only that but you can do more then get pregnant with unprotected sex. I hear some STI's are permanent unlike a pregnancy.

This is a more constructive argument. The problem is that a lot of women do go through protective measures, but you know what? Sh*t happens. The condom breaks, the birth control is faulty. Or maybe they just never recieved proper sex education. Or maybe a woman is raped, hmmm, ever think of that? Or maybe some parents just don't want to raise a child for whatever reason (maybe it's going to be born with two faces or three legs).

The point of the matter is, fetuses are basically parasites that leach off of the mother's interior, and can in some instances be life threatening or damaging. Abortion is a safe guard, and a necessary one, and its opponents are either prudes, puritanical, or just naive.

And that's my honest opinion. I don't support it because I enjoy killing babies. It's a similar case for euthanasia. It's all about quality of life.

Limit of the Willing Suspension of Disbelief: directly proportional to it's awesomeness.

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[–] Tothevalleywego 11 years ago

Wow such lack of empathy. It's funny how the people who are alive think abortion is right.

You're mother should have scraped you're parasitic body out of her uterus.

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[–] Degree7 11 years ago

Pro lifers are unempathetic themselves

Limit of the Willing Suspension of Disbelief: directly proportional to it's awesomeness.

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[–] groovyroom 11 years ago

Just what i would expect from a pro lifer - that kind of sick statement. Thank you for not disappointing me.

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[–] Tothevalleywego 11 years ago

It's called sarcasm. Sorry I forgot it doesn't translate well over the internet.

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[–] Ironman54 10 years ago

One fact that people seem to forget is that there is such a thing as the 'sociopath'. Arguing with them is useless. No I'm not saying that all those out there who are 'pro abortion' are also psychopaths but it is a part of the equation.Other factors that effect their thinking includes their age, who raised/taught them, other more mild psychological issues etc.
I for one, changed my thinking on a number of matters as I aged. Some of those (like the one above who you responded to) who post their opinion on these pages may very well 'change' his/her mind as they get older or re-think their logic - no way of knowing when. If I might advise, just stick to your guns and respectfully state your case keeping the abusive language to a minimum (not that you haven't) and hopefully, some day, your words may come back to them and finally make sense to them.
The biggest concern I have is that the last time we went through this school of thinking, 'we' wound up fighting the Nazis. Their 'final solution' was the logical extension of this kind of thinking. Hitlers views on euthanasia wound up being 'the final solution'.
When you rationalize taking a life then everything is possible.
And NO, self defense is not included so don't start with calling the WWII crowd the equivalent or calling George Bush a 'murderer' - there is no moral equivalence there. Taking a life to save many lives is a whole different story.

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[–] 10 years ago

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[–] groovyroom 11 years ago

There is nothing easy about abortion and by saying that, YOU have just proven your stupidity and ignorance. And might I add, judgmental nature. And might I ask how many children you have adopted out of the system? How much money you have donated to help impoverished children? So it's much better to bring a child into the world that won't be loved or cared for properly then get an abortion? Give me a friggin' break. I work with foster kids and it's terrifying how many will never experience a normal family life, how many are born drug addicted, how many in fifteen years will most likely be in prison. You "do gooders" are doing no one any good. This film brilliantly depicts how important providing safe abortions is and I love it because women will always need that service, whether crazy religious folk see it or not.

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[–] Tothevalleywego 11 years ago

Religious folks!? My goodness!? Are people with sympathy, hope, compassion, empathy, faith, positive attitudes etc all religious? Cause if so I see nothing wrong with religion.

Also it's called a CHOICE. Even if you are born in horrible situations you could always RISE to something better because you have that RIGHT to do so. Haven't you heard of any rag to riches stories? Those people could have quit but they didn't and now they're one of the richest and powerful people we know. It's a little thing called hard work and hope. At least they had the RIGHT to make their own choices. How can you predetermine someone else's life story based off of facts that they may or may not follow? Who are yo God or some grand wizard of the fortune cards?

Besides you don't know me, I actually do plan on adopting children thank you very much. I'll start off fostering children first and then I'll adopt. Sheesh.

How right is a right if you are taking away someone else's? Think about that Groovygurber,

P.S... If the community actually took an effort to really care about their neighbors then some problems of today wouldn't exist. Also I volunteer my time to help out my community, I'm religious and I believe EVERYONE should have their choice to live their life as they please despite if their birth mother finds them a cancer or not. But whatever, I don't need to validate myself but since you wish to judge me I might as well give some right facts to base your judgement off of.

People like you really grind my gears.

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[–] OnlyRocknRoll 11 years ago

They can be "pro-Life" if they confine it to themselves. No one is trying to force pro-lifers to have abortions, but they are attempting to force others to have children they don't want. What irritates me is them trying to foist their beliefs on others. This is comparable to religious or racial persecution because you are "superior" and know what's "best" for everyone else.

I'd rather have an abortion than endure an unwanted 9 month pregnancy and then labor and then give up a child for adoption and have it and me wondering about each other for the rest of our lives.

Men should SHUT UP about abortion. They'll never be impregnated or have to deal with being pregnant, one way or the other.

_______________________________________
"ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED??!!"

Maximus Decimus Meridius

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[–] itsallforu 11 years ago

By implying that men should have no opinion one way or the other on the status of their unborn child, you in turn should only be fair to have the same opinion on a born child. If the creation of a child should only be sought out to the mother, then so should everything else.

Get pissed if you want, but that's how it is. Arguments need to be well rounded. They stop half way, you'll get a rebuttal.

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[–] becE_groovin91 11 years ago

I love sentences that look to scold judgement by using the words *insert group whose opinions differ from my own* "make me sick." The hypocrisy is profound.

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[–] knifeparty2004 11 years ago

Funny how often I see the argument that a foetus with a poor mother is destined for a life of misery if its lucky enough to see the light of day.

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[–] mandy19850-2 11 years ago

There is always adoption she does not have to keep the baby. But Abortion is murder and the woman who does this is murdering an innocent baby. Did you know the lady in Rowe vs Wade now regrets fighting for the right of abortion?

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[–] Degree7 11 years ago

But Abortion is murder and the woman who does this is murdering an innocent baby.

A cluster of cells is not a human being, no matter how hard people try to spin it.

Limit of the Willing Suspension of Disbelief: directly proportional to its awesomeness.

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[–] biodtl22 11 years ago

Cluster of Cells? I guess you've never seen a sonagram. And there have plenty of late-term abortions where the baby could have survived outside the womb; hardly a cluster of cells.

You don't have to be pro-life to see the ignorance and narrow-mindedness of your argument.

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[–] Degree7 11 years ago

And there have plenty of late-term abortions where the baby could have survived outside the womb; hardly a cluster of cells.

That doesn't change the fact that there are plenty of abortions where the fetus isn't even developed, and just resembles cluster of cells, or a sea monkey.

Limit of the Willing Suspension of Disbelief: directly proportional to its awesomeness.

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[–] biodtl22 11 years ago

Yes, but that's not what you said. You're changing your argument now.

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[–] Degree7 11 years ago

Ok then, legislation should be passed that prohibits late term abortions unless under dire emergencies.

Limit of the Willing Suspension of Disbelief: directly proportional to its awesomeness.

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[–] biodtl22 11 years ago

That sounds more like a pro-life position.

Anyway, the point is it's not a black and white issue.

BTW, Castaway is on FXM now.

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[–] ShannonTriumphant 11 years ago

Great points! AND do you ever hear the "pro-LIFERS" advocate making the lives of BORN children better by adopting them, donating to causes for them or lobbying to get them food so they won't go hungry? NO! A bunch of hypocritical B.S. is all it is.

She deserves her revenge, and we deserve to die.

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[–] Nikon11 11 years ago

I am definitely not a pro-lifer.

But I don't believe that the majority of them are hypocrites. Sure, a lot of the politicians use the issue, one side or the other as a ploy - but I think that there are many, mostly religious, who feel very strongly against abortion.

Think about it, if you truly believe that abortion is the killing of a human life, then why are they wrong to be protesting, doing all that they're able to do, to prevent what they see as murder?

Luckily, I'm a man, and can take the position of not taking either side, feeling that I have no right to tell a woman what she can't do with her own body.

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[–] ShannonTriumphant 10 years ago

You make a valid argument. I would never interfere with someone's right to freedom of speech or right to assembly, even if I disagree with them! I simply have a huge problem that the anti-choice people rarely respect others' right to the same thing! They mob clinics, block the way, traumatize and threaten defenseless women and even shoot doctors! THAT is not the right way to fight against any cause.

I think they should be punished for violating these women's constitutional rights, at the very least, if they break the law.

But kudos to you also, for stepping back and agreeing that women alone should decide what to do with their own bodies!

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[–] knifeparty2004 11 years ago

So because someone doesn´t believe in abortion, they should suddenly start adopting children. What a load of garbage.

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[–] ShannonTriumphant 11 years ago

Garbage? Back at ya. I mentioned other actions that pro-lifers could take aside from adoption, such as donating to or volunteering with homeless, UNWANTED children (the results of woman who could not obtain abortions, often the result of rape or incest). You chose to ignore these ideas, just like most pro-lifers do. They work hard to force women into bearing unwanted children, only to abandon them once their idiotic, selfish, sexist agenda is achieve: that being stopping abortions. Also, they RARELY advocate the much preferable option of promoting contraceptive education! Why is that? it give the lie to the whole title "Pro-life"; what these people really are is "Anti-choice" and intruding into women's lives, where they have no business.

Nothing is what it seems. Everything is a test. Rule #1: Don't...get...caught.

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[–] knifeparty2004 10 years ago

Force women into bearing unwanted children? Sorry where does this happen?

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[–] tearsnhoney 10 years ago

Great points! AND do you ever hear the "pro-LIFERS" advocate making the lives of BORN children better by adopting them, donating to causes for them or lobbying to get them food so they won't go hungry? NO! A bunch of hypocritical B.S. is all it is.

I believe they focus more on bail money, getting to different clinics to harass patients, travel to DC and other ways to complain. In the end, they don't help the poor baby they talked a young, vulnerable, 13-year-old girl into having after being tossed onto the street with only the clothes on her back.

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[–] ShannonTriumphant 10 years ago

Thanks! It IS very strange to me that these "pro-lifers" only care about the embryos and fetuses BEFORE they emerge into the world! After that, they don't seem to give a damn.

You're quite right about them traveling around, wasting their time and energy just to harass women who are already stressed-out! I never even thought about the bail money! I think they should be held without bail. That scenario about helping a poor teenager is probably nothing that enters their heads, or if it does, they figure, "She made her bed..." and so on! Disgusting.

On so many forums, you read stories of girls like that, with nowhere to go, who are preyed upon by pimps, rapists and drug dealers, simply because they weren't taught contraception and then weren't allowed to get an abortion.

Glad to see there's at least one compassionate individual like you out there!

Don't get me wrong...
It might be unbelievable,
But let's not say so long.

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[–] ktowny 11 years ago

If life begins at conception, I want to know how many funerals for miscarried embryos any of you pro lifers have gone to.

Love's turned to lust and blood's turned to dust in my heart.

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[–] knifeparty2004 11 years ago

I dare say not many, since people that abort generally don´t announce it to the world.