MovieChat Forums > Ronin (1998) Discussion > Wow I think I finally get it!

Wow I think I finally get it!

posted 11 years ago by doctorbenjiphd
20 replies | jump to latest

I always took Sam at face value in this movie; though he never said it directly, he is ex CIA and since the end of the Cold War has become a nomadic gun for hire. He even says at one point he's just working for a paycheck. Well, I caught this movie on TV last night, haven't seen it in a while...always really loved it, though if I had any one complaint it would be how it gets a little too convoluted in the last half hour or so.

Annnyway, at the very end, when Vincent is chasing Seamus and Sam goes and talks to Diedre in the car, he says something like, "Don't you see, I never left. I am here for your boss." Well, it was like a lightbulb turned on for me - Sam still was an active CIA agent!! It was all a setup to get (what I assume to be) IRA boss Seamus out in the open and taken down. There is even a newscast at the end that tells us an IRA faction has negotiated with the British government. Sam then gets in a car *driven by his CIA contact* (who I just also noted was the same guy who Sam asks for help in finding Gregor) and drives off into the sunset.

I've seen this movie a lot, and now feel like an idiot for totally missing an integral part of the story. Just felt compelled to acknowledge how oblivious I was to one of my favorite movies.

[–] jason-brooks15 11 years ago

The interesting part is that Sam refused to blow his cover, even letting Vincent dig a bullet out of him...

[–] spookyrat1 11 years ago

Yes, Vincent and Larry were about the only ones who were actually honest about who they were.

[–] tedarndt57 11 years ago

Good responses. I like that.

[–] blade27-963-358136 11 years ago

I'm glad u mentioned Vincent- I'm not sure why but I thought he was an extremely likable character, kinda like the father u always wanted (or is that just me?)

[–] crownklown 11 years ago

.

The tip offs were scattered throughout the movie, but another obvious one is when the car falls down, he kind of shots at the guy with the case, but he really is aiming for Shamus but just can't get a clear shot. Then there is the conversation with Vincent's buddy making the Ronin sculpture, where he asks, are you sure he is ex-cia, as in are you sure he quit. Then there is the conversation with jean pierre and De Niro and he says, I can see it in you, you know what I am talking about, when they talk about honor. Ie he wasn't just a gun for hire working for a paycheck.

[–] TaxPayer99 10 years ago

Well the big tip off is when he approaches the CIA guy in the car and has the triangulation done.

[–] BeaSouth (3352) 5 years ago

That scene didn’t make sense after the big reveal that De Niro’s character never left the CIA. In speaking about his status with the CIA, the agent in the car says, “l thought you left” to which De Niro responds, “l did leave.” They go on. CIA guy: “You did leave? You're out ?” De Nero responds “That's right.” We later learn De Niro is still in the CIA and working with the CIA agent in the car. So why did the two of them put on the earlier skit pretending De Niro’s character was not working for the CIA?

[–] Saber (19) 4 years ago

Not even the CIA guy knew if Sam had left. Sam kept his legend even to the CIA contact.

[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] kamakosmo-596-394042 10 years ago

Go watch another Tyler Perry movie then.

[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] Vashramana 10 years ago

I thought of that as well, and if that is the case the CIA really lets their agents go all out. How many innocent bystanders were shot? How many cars were wrecked causing bodily harm?

[–] Drooch 8 years ago

That's a helluva lot of collateral damage to capture one crusty old Sinn Fein dude.

[–] timbob-478-937623 9 years ago

I've watched it several times, its always confused me, so I'm glad you pointed that out. I have the habit of watching a program which has commercials and the instant an ad comes on I pause the program and then switch over to a movie on one of the pay channels, and then once the ads are done I switch back, zap through the ads, then continue to watch the original program. Today I decided to try and watch Ronin all the way through, it has some great action sequences, but the story is still a bit muddled in my head. And I still don't know whats in the briefcase.

[–] TRinzler 9 years ago

Today I decided to try and watch Ronin all the way through, it has some great action sequences, but the story is still a bit muddled in my head. And I still don't know whats in the briefcase.

That's what these forums are for so ask away 

We're never told what's in the briefcase but we can assume it's a W.M.D. of some sort... ...unless the C.I.A also planted it as a way of fishing for Seamus!

The film is deliberately secretive about such things because that's what intelligence work is supposed to be like. Sometimes you just don't know!

[–] Desepticon 9 years ago

It really doesn't matter whats in the briefcase. It's just a plot device used to move the story further called a MacGuffin. Think of the Maltese Falcon, the case in Pulp Fiction, Rosebud.

My brother was eaten by wolves on the CT Turnpike

[–] trull-steve 9 years ago

I have watched this film many times and on my most recent viewing I had the same revelation. Sam was not Ronin; he pretended to be in order to find Seamus. There are many hints in hind sight. The most obvious? Sam is short for Samurai, the unfallen Ronin.

De Niro played the devil in Angel Heart in 1987. his character’s name was Louis Cyphre (Lucifer)

[–] greenleafie 8 years ago

I think Vincent was a legitimate operative too, on the same assignment as Sam. After Deirdre (and Seamus) betrayed them at the Colosseum, neither Sam nor Vincent had any reason at all to continue pursuing the case- and Seamus- unless it was, 1) to force Seamus to pay them for their work as mercenaries, or 2) to take him down, because it was their undercover assignment. Since it was Vincent who kills Seamus, I would say he did it, because it was his job. Seamus, after all, couldn't pay him, if he was dead. Vincent was on a legitimate assignment, the same one as Sam.

[–] d_art 8 years ago

Well, the big hint was also what Jean-Pierre was saying... I used to think it was just something cool to say, but it is actually talking about Sam

Jean-Pierre: Forty-seven samurai, whose master was betrayed and killed by another lord. They became ronin - masterless samurai - disgraced by another man's treachery. For three years they plotted, pretending to be thieves, mercenaries, even madmen - that I didn't have time to do - and then one night they struck, slipping into the castle of their lord's betrayer and killing him.
Sam: Nice. I like that. My kind of job.

So, in this case, Sam is the ronin pretending to be a "thief, mercenary...etc" for years in order to slip into Seamus' castle (figuratively speaking) and kill him. And, his loyalty was still to the C.I.A. So there's that.

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[–] Luke_was_a_terrorist 8 years ago

I don't understand how you've seen this movie alot and it just dawned on you that he was still CIA... HE LITERALLY SAYS IT AT THE END.

I think you're the opposite of paranoid, I think you walk around with the delusion people like you.