And "the woke agenda has become too obvious." I was told for 8 years by Democrat party activists the woke agenda wasn't happening and movies have always been this way. Here is the South Park clip...https://youtube.com/shorts/jE2HwHSKrTM?feature=share
shareMovies suck now because there's simply too much capeshit and children's movies. All the interesting content now is going into TV.
Not got much to do with 'wokeism'. Keep in mind that this is also taking the piss out of people who whine about 'woke culture' too.
Cope and seeth, woketard.
shareExplain to me why Euphoria, Heartstopper and Sex Education - all three highly rated ""woke"" TV shows are successful please.
shareI haven't seen any of those. Is there a lot of young female nudity in them? If there is, then that can even top the anti-woke fallout, I guess.
share1.Because "Euphoria" has Sydney Sweeney nude.
2.The "Heartstopper" board on Moviechat currently has TWO posts. LMAO! https://moviechat.org/tt10638036/Heartstopper
3.The "Sex Education" board on Moviechat currently has FIFTEEN posts. LMAO! https://moviechat.org/tt7767422/Sex-Education
(1) Most TV shows now have people nude, especially on HBO.
(2) Are you suggesting that the Moviechat forums best represent how well known a TV show or film is? Here's a better source: https://www.justjaredjr.com/2022/05/04/joe-locke-reacts-to-heartstopper-climbing-netflixs-most-watched-chart/
(3) Same again: https://www.digitalspy.com/tv/a25939758/netflix-you-sex-education-bird-box-viewing-figures/
Why did they all do really well?
1.Sydney Sweeny is an exceptional beauty, but whatever your aberrant sexual preference is would prevent you from understanding this.
2.Maybe those shows aren't really doing as well as those sites are reporting.
You do realise I'm straight.
2. Based on what evidence? Why would Netflix renew failing TV shows?
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7767422/ Sex Education on IMDB, 291,000 votes is a lot for IMDB. High numerical rating too.
2.Because every American company is now motivated to disregard profit in favor of receiving a good ESG score. It's quite insidious.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental,_social,_and_corporate_governance
I await evidence that Netflix has fudged the numbers regarding Sex Education, and Heartstopper.
shareSomeone was complaining on here about this film yesterday: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt13669038/
Yet, surely films like this *prove* that cinema is not simply all about capeshit and children's movies.
We also have TAR, The Fabelmans, Marcel the Shell with Shoes On, and The Whale, so it's wrong to say that the only interesting content is on TV. Besides, most TV is utter crap and even the good stuff is formulaic (i.e. 8 to 10 fifty-minute episodes yada-yada-yada) and contrived, rather than genuinely creative/envelope-pushing, which cinema still does at its best.
I was obviously being hyperbolic. Modern top cinema is tainted by the MCU and childrens or YA movies. Top acclaimed TV is known for Succession, The Last of Us, Arcane, Severance, House of the Dragon, Stranger Things etc. There's a huge difference in maturity here.
You are not keeping up with modern TV well enough if you think modern TV is crap. It's way more diverse than it has ever been.
Funnily enough, most of the shows you've referred to are genre TV (i.e. fantasy shows/shows based on video games), and I find that a lot of them are dictated by strict structures, and have a tendency to drag on for years past their prime.
By contrast a theatrically-released film can be practically anything. There are one hour films, and there are 10 hour films. And there's a technical ambition to filmmaking, particularly when it comes to cinematography, editiing and art direction, that one seldom finds in fucking TV.
Movies are great for the reason you mentioned, but some shows can pull off wonderful things. I was watching behind the scenes for Stargate SG-1 and they were showing all the little details of this village they constructed for an episode and it was interesting to see all the work put into it. They then went on to say that with such time constraint theres only so much people can do to make the shows work. Which further illustrated how creative and hard-working the teams are on the show!
Nowadays shows can be filmed like a miniseries/long movie and just placed onto streaming. But shows that run weekly only have so much time to film so they cannot spend too much on any one thing. Its constantly moving.
My point is some of these tv show teams are highly ambitious people, but they are restrained by time as well.
I dont keep up with any modern tv anymore, save for Its Always Sunny in Philadelphia
I'm admittedly being very unfair about TV, but on balance I do regard it as the superior artform (but once again, I can't deny there's a bit of snobbery and irrationality about it).
Plus, I find it marginally easier to keep track of new film releases (although it's getting harder with so many films going direct to various different streaming platforms), than it is to keep track of all the various TV shows.
I understand. I use to be better at keeping track of new films because I had subscribed to the EWeekly! Magazine. But eventually I decided not to renew my subscription again as their bias became too obvious for me to keep enjoying the read while on my toilet xD
I reckon with shows you can watch one or two episodes and decide if you wanna invest more time, but if not just stop watching. Streaming services make it easier to make up for that time you didnt know of a show as you can discover it later. I feel lucky when I can enjoy a show or at least finish a show while it was still in the public mainstream as it makes talking about it more fun and easier.
Learning the behind the scenes of shows made me appreciate them more. Seems like it would be more stressful to run a show than produce a movie.
"I reckon with shows you can watch one or two episodes and decide if you wanna invest more time, but if not just stop watching."
Which kind of feels like a waste to me, whereas, the average movie takes about two hours of one's time, and in most cases has a beginning, a middle and an end. Even the first Dune and It movies, and most MCU instalments, feel relatively complete, compared to the average episode in a 10-part series, and the vast majority of films are thankfully self-contained. I think the only films that truly necessitated watching every single instalment, were the Lord of the Rings and Hobbit films (which Peter Jackson has pretty much described as one entire film in any case), and maybe the Back to the Future, and Matrix, sequels (although the first instalments of each respective franchise clearly hold up as one-off movies). Even most Star Wars films feel fairly self-contained.
I appreciate when a show gives real closure, like they planned a legitimate ending from when they started. "Dark" as well as "Alice in Borderland" are long enough series (both on Netflix) that give an actual ending. I think thats why I watch more mini-series than regular shows. But some shows work well enough where each episode is self contained with only a loose arc that unfolds slowly through the show. Its why I love "Its Always Sunny in Philadelphia". You can cherry pick any episode and itll give you a self contained story and its funny. You dont have to watch the entire series from start to finish.
I mentioned just watching one or two episodes of a show and then leaving, because you dont have to invest too much time to know if its for you or not. Whereas a movie is more time consuming. You can always switch off a streamed movie, bu a theater experience will keep you there since it cost time and money to go there.
I don't get why the 'anti-woke' contingent on here aren't angry about Kuina being transgendered in Alice in Borderland.
shareMaybe they havent watched it?
Unless you mean Im part of that contingent, so im suppose to angry?
I don't know your particular beliefs. I saw someone complain about TLOU implying it was 'woke' and then recommended AiB and I was like "lol what?"
shareIve been campaigning for people to watch that show xD might have been me.
You watched it all the way through right?
Yes I have. No, it wasn't you.
shareDid you find the final two episodes of Alice in Borderland to be quite powerful? I found it to be quite an ending!
Could you provide a link, I wanna see what they said. Im looking now.
Very powerful. The last episode was more like a Mr. Robot episode, albeit I'm not really convinced of the meteor strike logic. It would be well known that a meteor was about to hit Tokyo months before lol. It's here:
https://moviechat.org/tt3581920/The-Last-of-Us/63ea6b154f64dc355af5d477/Tried-to-watch-it-but-couldnt-get-through-ep-1
I need to watch more Mr Robot. I was borrowing them from my local library and the last season they had available was season 3. I need to check if I can watch season 4 yet.
Dont be so sure! A meteor strike is something scientists worry about on a regular basis and they acknowledge that the chances of seeing a deadly meteor coming our way is actually low.
https://youtu.be/HGjYmCn2MfY
Graham Hancock here claims we could catch them in time, yet we would need a global community to get it done.
https://youtu.be/PC78KblS3jo?t=461
That was an interesting conversation you linked. I was happy to see someone else mention the show
Right, but if you compare TV from the 90s and 00s to the 10s and 20s - I'd argue there's no contest.
Also I missed Better Call Saul.
On balance I'd agree that modern TV is generally more ambitious and challenging than stuff from earlier decades.
That said, I think I'd rather watch an old episode of Cheers or Seinfeld than a lot of modern sitcoms. Heck, I still think Bilko/The Phil Silvers Show is very funny.
I think the two greatest TV shows are Our Friends in the North (late 90s) and the UK Office (early 00s), but that's because I can relate to both. Authenticity counts for a lot IMHO.
Well Sitcoms are dead, no argument there.
But long-form serial fictional content is not.
But a great sitcom is easy, brain-in-neutral, viewing.
If I'm going to intellectually invest in a piece of art, I'd still favour a film over a TV show.
Sure. That's a preference though, I'd argue. I prefer long-form TV because you spend more time in a setting than 1.5-3 hours.
shareThere are pros and cons. I suppose there's potentially more scope for nuance with a TV show, and the best shows play th long-game by rewarding their audiences with callbacks to previous episodes and set-ups. Still, I appreciate the focus of a great movie. Although there's sadly less room for details, a great film tends to be better at presenting a coherent narrative.
Also, I tend to subscribe to the Aristotelian theory when it comes to great drama, and the classical unities (i.e. action, place and time) tend to be better served within a two, or so, hour cinematic framework, than a multi-episode TV series (it's also why I'm not the biggest fan of many adaptations of bloated epic novels, and tend to prefer stories, either via film or TV, that take place within the space of a day or a week).
Also in terms of length, modern TV is generally much shorter than older TV. 6-10 episodes a season vs. 20-24 a season. And they don't go on as long.
shareThe only wokeism is the one called anti-wokeism, it is woke disguised as anti-woke, any other woke is illusory and doesn't exist besides in their imagination, that is all there is to it. Woke to this group of people means anything they don't like, it is their bogeyman, it stands for people's shadow unconscious side, it is a dirty word to those who are asleep at the wheel afraid to be left behind, because the world is moving on whether they like it or not.
share💯
shareYou can spot a woke person right, because they are the only ones that try and pretend that woke doesn’t exist. They believe their far left views are the norm, and opposition to them comes from racism/sexist/homophobia etc.
shareI'm a leftist. 'Wokism' as a phenomenon does exist. There are some rubbish woke TV shows and movies.
However, there are also some highly successful TV shows and movies that might be so described as 'woke'.
However, there are also some highly successful TV shows and movies that might be so described as 'woke'.
There's nothing wrong with far-left views, and standing up to racism, sexism and homophobia is clearly a good thing.
The problem is, when political agendas and messaging become substitutes for creativity and quality, as I personally believe was the case with 2016's Ghostbusters (the problem with that film wasn't the all-female cast; the problem was that the all-female cast was *all* that film had going for it), but we're also seeing a lot more films, like the recent Ant-Man sequel, with Black villains, so it seems that we're moving on, and seeing a more sophisticated approach to storytelling rather than "white man, bad, Black woman, good" (once again, it's not the message I have a problem with, so much as the fact that such cliches, formulas and tropes end up stifling genuine creativity, and lead to predictable plots that audience-members, like me, can see coming from a mile away).
how do you know the two things are related ?
political agendas and messaging
creativity and quality
maybe films are just shit now regardless of wether there are women and black people in .
Take for instance all that shit marvel churn out - i dont care about the color . its shit .
I dont think that is *because* they were too busy casting POC , thats just something that happed "as well"
Where did I say that diversity is a problem?
But my point is that we're getting tonnes of remakes (including The Little Mermaid and a new Planes, Trains and Automobiles) rather than original fare, because, hey, the new version has a Black actor as the lead.
I don't care what your politics, you CAN'T possibly tell me that this represents creativity.
So-called 'wokeism' may not be the problem per se, but it's certainly being used by certain hacks as a cover/excuse for a lack of creativity, and people are celebrating these shows and films without asking "Should we be demanding something better?" Isn't it an INSULT to POC and women to fob them off with second-hand versions of better movies and stories, or are you a racist/misogynist, who thinks that it's all good? 🤔
Clearly I'm FAR MORE WOKE than the rest of you in demanding BETTER for minorities and marginalised people. ðŸ˜
Where did I say that diversity is a problem?
I didnt say that you said that
I'm sugesting its unrelated
I'm agreeing that creativity is at a low - hollywood is churning out remakaes and MCU shit .
"because, hey, the new version has a Black actor as the lead."
I dont think it is that, I think they'd be making remakes regardless of wether they get to change the lead's color/sex
I don't think you're entirely wrong with your last point, but, once again, I think studios and filmmakers are occasionally using 'diversity' as a cover for a lack of creativity, when it would be far preferable to see women and POC headline NEW IPs and concepts (which is something that Jordan Peele, at the very least, seems to be doing, to his credit). It's a shield, where they can say "You're only hating our movie because you're a racist/misogynist" rather than because people are fed-up with subpar 'content'.
sharebit of both i guess
I feel Oceans 8 was a bit "hey look - the ladies turn " . That said it probably wasnt any worse than the rapidly dropping in quality sequels that preceded it.
I agree with you about Oceans 8. It wasn't any worse than Oceans 13 (which, fwiw, I felt had a bit of an underlying misogynist streak). I don't even think it's the most egregious example, but there was still an element of "Same as before, just with ladies."
shareThere's nothing wrong with far-left views, and standing up to racism, sexism and homophobia is clearly a good thing.
Fair enough. I certainly agree that there are people on the extreme left who'd probably regard me as too soft/not militant enough.
shareThese accounts that whine about people calling out wokeness are all from the same resident MovieChat troll.
shareIt does not exist because it has no definition for it to exist in the first place, it is anything people from the far right resist that is woke, that's all it is, and that is the only way you can spot it, so instead of examing the woke, its better to look at anti-woke, why don they resist it, and examine the psychology behind it.
I do not have to pretend it does not exist because I dont know what it is, like most people on this planet we only know anti-woke, because it makes itself known, it whines like a little baby when people have different views from them. It has been around all the time, older generations have always whined about big revolutions leaving the old ways behind. If woke means addressing problems in society, then we know where the problem is probably, in those who dont want the world know about it, whether they are conscious of it or not does not matter, unrestrained ego resists its own destruction.
Now I read some other posts describing woke as a possible representation in movies, oh okay then, that was always the case, especially during the WW2 or 1950's, jesus theres always been an agenda to bring attention to some issues. Filmmakers do it all the time, the more some groups of people are oppressed, the movie is bound to be made about it. Again, as I said, it is much wiser to look into the resistance, why do people resist woke. Do people realize that self realization is the key to freedom on earth and mental health? Repression and denial was never the answer.
You do realise that South Park are 100% taking the piss out of you anti wokes with Randy's rant right ?
shareTo every woke activist in this thread claiming woke isn't real, here is your Cult leader, Bill Maher, recently explaining what woke is and confirming it IS real...https://youtu.be/yysKhJ1U-vM
shareMaher is a weird beast.
I would say that is one of the few leftists that thinks for himself and forms his own opinions. Which I appreciate.
And weirdly enough I happen to agree with most of his ideas/opinions.
When Maher had his network tv show "Politically Incorrect" in the 90s, I agreed with many of his opinions too. In the 90s, Republicans and Democrats weren't divided as massively as the 2 parties are now.
shareIn what universe is Bill Maher a "cult leader" to 'woke' people?
shareThe argument that there is no such thing woke TV series is so ridiculous that there is no point in responding to it. I am already defined woke movies/TV series in Top Gun: Maverick board (to prove it's not woke movie as few people said), it's go something like this:
Principles of what woke film/tv series is:
1. Superficial dichotomy between black/female/non-white and white males.
2. The movie/series involved racial or gender tensions.
3. The emphasis is on the characters identity than the characters traits.
4. Criticism of the United States - mainly with the use of neo-Marxist and progressive terms.
5. The emphasis is on the ideology and not story.
I will added that:
6. The PC didn't include identity groups that the left seen as belongs to dominate group - regardless of the social context of a particular individual.
I am agree with Randy arguments, people in the entertainment industry try to inject progressive content to their productions to please woke mob. I would add another point and that is that until now no even one woke production has managed to shape our collective memory.
Are you saying that a 'woke' series must have all 5 of those points, or just one of them?
shareOne is not enough, you need at least a few of them, and some of them are necessary (maybe 2 and 4) I need to research this a little more to determine, but this is woke in general terms.
shareI would add another point and that is that until now no even one woke production has managed to shape our collective memory.
I didn't said that none of the woke production are unsuccessful. But if you asked me, MOST of them aren't. Every rule has an exception. First, there are many reasons that series can success although the woke parts. Second, american television is based on a free market so that every target group can find what they are looking for. Of course there is a significant group of progressives who will love this. Thirdly, most american series today are woke at least in some level, one of them must to succeed, people who subscribe to Netflix and Amazon must watch something.
Having said that, I didn't seen none of the TV series you points out so I can't really answer to your question.
https://variety.com/2022/tv/news/euphoria-season-2-finale-ratings-1235192015/#:~:text=According%20to%20HBO%2C%20%E2%80%9CEuphoria%E2%80%9D,and%20final%20season%20in%202019.
https://www.digitalspy.com/tv/a25939758/netflix-you-sex-education-bird-box-viewing-figures/
Here's the evidence for the shows I referred to.
And many highly woke shows have been calamitous, I agree. However the success rate of conservative, right-wing shows is non-existent. The left utterly dominate modern TV, film, music, literature etc. All the right-wing tends to do is start podcasts and internet shows ranting about satanism and LGBT people.
You keep talking about series I didn't seen and try to prove me something I didn't said (I didn't said that you are lying and that these series are not successful). Moreover, you don't distinguish between left and woke.
Most right-wing love quality, a good story and doesn't like contents that trying to indoctrinate them - in this way they are no so different from moderate leftists who despise the cancel culture and woke culture.
I mean what is your distinction between woke and left. The point is those 3 shows more or less tick all the stereotypical marks for "woke" according to many people on here, yet they're highly successful. Whether or not you have personally seen them isn't relevant to their success.
shareBut I didn't seen your 3 show to answer your question, as far as I'm concerned I can't even tell if they really are woke or not.
Every woke series is left, not every series who tend to the left are woke. For example, The Wire is not woke series.
WOKE IS THE FAKE ASS FLAG YOU MAGGOTS GATHER UNDER.😘
share