Do you think Rose was wrong to let her mother think she had died? And I have always wondered if Ruth changed after the sinking. Did she become less snobbish and regretful of how she had acted before?
I guess we won't know for sure until the sequel comes out. Hopefully, the Crash of '29 hurt her interest hard, too.
Mia Carrick's a neat gal.
I thought the idea of not telling her mother she was alive was particularly cruel on Roses part. Considering the time period, Roses situation was particularly common. Rose could have backed out on her own volition. It is not as if they could actually force Rose to marry Cal against her own will. Ruth only pressured her to marry Cal, if Rose wanted to walk she could. This is why I find the issue incongruent to Roses feelings and actions. The way she sought to leave the situation was reprehensible and somewhat cowardly. A truly decent person would have ended the engagement without intentionally hurting someone and standing up to their mother, not fake her death. I would imagine that Ruth was indeed regretful of her actions the moment the lifeboat started lowering.Ruth was not a heartless monster, she was just a snobbish, selfish women who was a product of her time.
shareYes, I think Ruth changed to a degree after the sinking. She witnessed over a thousand people die. She was crying in the lifeboat knowing her daughter was among those trapped onboard. In the scene where Ruth helps arise with her corset. Ruth is cunning and obviously using her daughter, but she still shows love for her daughter. In Ruth's mind Rose is acting like a brat and jeopardizing a comfortable, secure life of wealth for a poor street artist. Ruth is never downright mean or abusive to Rose like Cal. Therefore to let Ruth think her daughter was dead seems very cruel and must have been devastating for her. Also, Ruth never got to know she was a grandmother. I'm sure Rose feared her mother would trap her into another marriage or something, but years later it would have been kind to contact her. But we never knew what happened to Ruth. Did she have to become a seamstress and have a harder life possibly going from aristocrate to working class? Being shunned from her world like she tried to do to Molly Brown, a widow and now
childless living alone. She would either have been really humbled or really bitter by the end of her life.
I believe also that Ruth was confounded by Roses actions against the marriage.In her mind she can't fathom why Rose would turn down such an oppritunity even if they weren't having financial issues.
shareMaybe she thought she might weaken under her mother's pressure and go back to him. She was also determined to walk away from that lifestyle, she would have been drawn back into it. Still, she could have let her mother know - written her an anonymous letter or something like that.
shareAgreed. She should've at least done that.
share*It is not as if they could actually force Rose to marry Cal against her own will.*
This would have been true only if Rose had help from someone outside the family. Young women were forced to marry men they didn't love all the time. Consuelo Vanderbilt's marriage to the Duke of Marlborough is probably a prime example. Both of them were in love with other people, CV was actually engaged to her person when her engagement to the duke was made public, and on the morning of the wedding, she was so late (because she had been crying so much and it took so long to regain her composure) that her mother was convinced she had run off.
Now, granted, that wedding took place in 1895, and society does change in 17 years. But even today in some places, women are still forced to marry men they don't love. It's a shame, but as Ruth says, "We're women. What does fair have to do with it?"
I think she tried to keep up with her ways as long as possible.
Remember when Molly was trying to get them to row back and look for survivors? Ruth did not stand up and say "My daughter's out there, let's go!" So how much could she have really cared, beyond her meal ticket?
I like to believe Cal told her, "Well, good luck to you" and sent her on her way. After that, she slowly and quietly as possible sold possessions to keep her lifestyle as long as possible, and then ended up working class. Maybe as a seamstress, maybe as a cleaning person.
I suppose all the other women didn't care either right?it couldn't possibly be that she traumatized by the events? Lastly, if Cal did what you say his reputation would be ruined if he just brushed her off. What an immature post.
shareI think Ruth was in a state of shock and also having been brought up as a lady she wouldn't know how to assert herself the way that Molly Brown did. I would have liked to have seen her reaction to Rose telling her that half the people were going to die. I would really like to think that made her change and that Cal's callousness would disgust her so much she wouldn't want anything to do with him.
shareShe didn't react to being told that because it didn't even register in her mind. She didn't care about the peope who would die. They were not "her people".
shareUp until she made the comment about how crowded the lifeboats were, she was unaware of the severity. When Rose told her she had a shocked look on her face as if she was absorbing the new information. She was clearly in shock and traumatized after the ship went down. I do not even think she heard the argument between Molly and Hitchins and she was trying to block out of the screams. Cals callousness was more of a dig at Rose and Jack than truly not caring that the people were going to die.
shareI believe Ruth was in a state of shock as well. She sort of had a glazed look on her face and couldn't believe what was happening or had just happened after the sinking. When Molly Brown says "It's your men out there. There's plenty of room for more." None of the women respond or stand up. They are all in shock.
shareI think it was wrong of Rose to let her mother think that she died on the Titanic. She should have at least let her mother know that she is ok. I know that Rose chose to avoid seeing her mother again because she knew that Ruth would try to get her to marry Cal or set her up in another arranged marriage. Arranged marriages were common among the upper class back then. Rose still had the right to refuse to marry anyone she didn't want to. Rose wasn't a slave. Women didn't have as many job options back then, but they still had rights and were getting more rights in that time period. The worse that Ruth could do was disown Rose for refusing to marry someone rich to improve their financial situation.
Rose should have just refused to marry Cal instead of pretending to like him and accepting his proposal to marry him. Cal didn't know that Rose didn't want to marry him and he also didn't know about Rose and Ruth's financial problems. It was very childish of Rose to let Jack draw her naked and to leave the drawing and a rude note in Cal's safe for him to see and to have sex with Jack in the back of the car to end her engagement with Cal. It is childish and wrong to cheat on your fiance to end the engagement. Rose should have just waited until they got back to Philadelphia and end their engagement in a nice way without cheating on Cal. I think that Ruth probably became a nicer person after the sinking. Ruth looked horrified when she was watching the Titanic sink and listening to the screams. I think that Ruth was probably was less of snob and nicer after going through that. She probably regretted not seeing her daughter again. I think that Ruth really cared about Rose. She was upset about Rose's supposed death. I'm sure that Ruth was more upset about the lose of her daughter not just upset because she wouldn't have Rose around anymore to set in another arranged marriage so that they can improve their financial situation. Ruth was a bit of a snob, but I don't think that she was so shallow that she was more upset about not being able to set Rose up in another arranged marriage to improve their financial situation than being upset of the loss of her daughter. Ruth loved her daughter. Ruth was just a product of her time. Upper class people setting their kids up in arranged marriages was very common back then.
Undoubtedly. She would have been a seamstress at best. I mean, she was destitute with only her daughter and her name to keep her affluent. Since she was now less one daughter, she only had her name, which was useless for any purpose other than putting it over people.
SpiltPersonality
Ruth may have had more than a nodding acquaintance with a seamstress's life, the way she spoke of it, like it was something to be terrified of. She wouldn't have gotten this impression simply from handing over her duds to HER seamstresses-- not like she followed them to their work area or shops. Seamstress wasn't the worst kind of job for a woman to have, especially if she was skilled and highly favored by well-to-do clients.
I think Ruth may have come from a more common background than the DeWitt Bukaters, perhaps the child or grandchild of working-class people who happened to make enough money to educate her. It could be their were some lean times in the family's clothing maintenance trade and then it became a struggle. The next step down was doing laundry, and THAT was hard work back then. Of course Ruth would have longed to escape, to use her education, looks and graces to better herself.
I'd bet Ruth became a governess in a wealthy family that treated her with some respect. Then she managed to meet Rose's father, who DID come from real money, while being evasive about her real history. In that case, perhaps the marriage was not fully approved and the father's inheritance was reduced. Then the baby came and the D-Bs finally allowed their son to have enough for a privileged lifestyle, but he wasn't trained to handle money well. He speculated, made poor investments, spoiled his prideful (but secretly insecure) wife and precocious little daughter.
Then he died when his daughter was still just a teenager, apparently without much in the way of insurance or solid capital. It was just enough to get Rose through her finishing school and to prepare her to the standard of catching a rich husband. The mother Ruth was truly fated to return to the life she despised, and she might have feared selling her services, either as a seamstress, governess, or housekeeper, to the wealthy women she once thought of as her peer group, so it would be a difficult life.
"Shake me up, Judy!"
I think it's more than likely that Ruth became an unpaid companion to some wealthy elderly lady, living the ignominious life of a poor relation. These genteelly impoverished ladies were held in general contempt by Society, so this punishment is very much karma for her!
shareHer mother was pushing her to marry an abusive, cruel man. She raised her to be sold out to the highest bidder. She was not a true, loving parent. Just a social climber who missed her chance to marry and up and saw her young daughter as her only ticket to the easy life.
shareI think it was justice after what Ruth had done to her. You tend not to care much for a woman who cared more about appearances and wealth than she did about her own daughter. To try and push her into a terrible marriage with an abusive man to make up for dad's debts was very selfish on behalf of the mother. All she was really thinking about was living a life of wealth and comfort, no matter how much her daughter suffered.
Rose knew that if her mother found her, she'd try to get her back and marry her off to someone else, so she didn't dare try going back to that life. It was the perfect punishment to Ruth because she had lost her meal ticket and probably ended up working class as a seamstress, like she said. Chances are, she took a page out of Cal's book and ended her miserable life.
You will note in the "heaven" scene, who WASN'T there: Cal and Ruth.