confused
can someone please tell me the ending? i've watched it 7 times and i once i think i figured it out something else comes along and confuses me. please help!
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MovieChat Forums > Suicide Kings (1998) Discussion > confused
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I have a few questions of my own. Seems some things in this movie don't add up.
-If Elise and Max planned on getting the money and abandonning everyone including Avery, why did they even care about the gorillas clearing his debt?
-If Avery was in debt to begin with, what the hell was the point (even if it was a hoax) of asking him to come up with $2,000,000 if he doesn't have $50,000?
-Where did the gorillas get the "packages" to send to Avery and the guys?
-Why Charlie? What does he have to do with anything? Who comes up with the idea of kidnapping a mob boss??? Surely there could've been a better way. Was there some connection between the guys and Charlie that I didn't realize?
-In a review I read at amazon, some guy said that he didn't like that they gave away Avery as the inside man by showing him throwing cards on the stair well. How does that give him away? Was that some kind of metaphore??
I'll post more questions as they come to me. I loved the movie but it just didn't make much sense.
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I'm confused myself.
If Avery owed 50,000....then it was bumped up to 2,000,000. What point was there in making a deal with kidnapping his sister? How did the gorillas think either party was going to come up with the money to pay the ransom? Did they know that it was Charlie was going to be kidnapped? Seems pretty stupid considering they would be and WERE killed...please explain.
Call me dense but I still don't understand the deal. Where was Avery going to get the money? Or was this all only happening with Charlie's kidnapping?
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How does Charlie get involved?
Who's idea was it to kidnap him if Avery can just get the father to pay the money? Did they just kidnap him because he was a mobster with connections and they wanted to avoid going to the father?
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Actually TK didnt get off totally scott free, there was implied black mail when Charlie said you better hope the AMA doesnt get wind of this.
shareshine7on, i agree with you. Doesn't the movie carry out your feelings? they don't get away with it. He finds the people behind the kidnapping/finger chopping/money stealing/etc., and he shoots them. You're right, they had no legitimate chance. the movie shows us that.
"Sometimes nothing can be a real cool hand"
If Max and Elise made the deal and erased Avery's debt, how is increasing it to 2,000,000 better? Its not really erasing it if Avery believes the situaton at hand to be true and actually tries to get the 2mill. And correct me if im wrong, but wasnt the plan of the guys to kidnap Charlie and have him use his contacts to find the kidnapers of Elise and kill them? Or was it to find them and pay them cuz that doenst make sense to find the killers, and pay them as scheduled. uhh...?
share[deleted]
me too! i evn bought the movie and i still dont get the ending... im going crazy... please help
The ending of the film is mystery as Charlie talks to Max about screwing friends over. That is when someone is shot and it could have been Charlie & leno went of with the cash. Who knows............
shareI dont really get where all the confusion is
Avery (Elliot!!!) got into debt...he planned it for the 'gorilla' to kidnap his sister so his father would end up paying the ransom. and his debt would be paid
Then Max and his Avery's sister went to the 'gorillas' and changed the deal. That way Avery's debt was cancelled and "...no-one was supposed to get hurt"
Charlie's involved because he 'has contacts'...remember..Avery thinks his sister REALLY HAS been kidnapped and the $2million ransom was sent to screw him over. The only one who was in on the whole thing was Max.
No-one ended up alright....Max said that "the beauty of it is no-body gets hurt" because no-one really was supposed to....but obviously the moral being 'you dont get away with anything.....what goes around comes around'
so Avery thinks his he's killed his sister...as someone here correctly said..Brett got shot...Ira was involved accidentally but hes still gonna get punished by his father....T.K.---i think hes the only decent one in the film--he genuinly has a heart BUT he still has his drug dependency problem...Max and the sister die....as do the 'gorillias' and Charlie and the other dude have killed the 'gorillas' and they really were harmless.
Last line in the film??? Dont Screw Over Your Friends.....which is wot everyone did and they themselves got screwed..
Any questions???
Sorry...I Suffer From Amelia
Avery was in debt for $50,000 so he met these two gorrilla that said they would
shareOk, most of the explanations here are close, but they've left out a few key elements. Here's what went down in the movie:
1. Avery owes $50,000 to a big-time dude from gambling losses. A couple of "gorillas" (henchmen for this big-time dude), start thinking that since this kid who owes their boss $50,000 is a rich, prep-school kid with a loaded family, they could make some extra money off the situation.
2. The Gorillas approach Avery, offer to pay the debt off for him, IF he will help them stage kidnapping Avery's sister in order to get a ransom of more than $50,000 (the amount wasn't specified, but basically to cover the gambling debt plus some bonus money).
3. Avery reluctantly agrees, as he can't come up with the $50,000 any other way (apparently his dad wouldn't approve of his gambling habit).
4. Avery goes to Max, realizing that he'll need Max's help setting it up. Max agrees that for Avery's sake he'll help set up the kidnapping. Max says he'll take Elise for a drive, pretend to get lost, and then the Gorillas can grab her from the car. As far as Avery knows, the plan is then that the father will pony up the ransom money, and Elise will be returned unharmed. And Max will never breathe a word about this.
5. But then Max hatches his own plan. He lets Elise in on what's afoot. And together, Max and Elise decide to approach the Gorillas and propose a different plan. In this new plan, they don't kidnap Elise. Instead she "disappears" for awhile so everyone thinks she's been kidnapped. And the ransom is upped from a few hundred thou, to $2 million. Max and Elise will take half, and the Gorillas will get the other half. They don't tell Avery they've changed the plan, or that Elise isn't really going to be snatched (otherwise they'd have to share the money with him too, and he might blow the whistle since they know he has big-time guilt issues).
6. The "kidnapping" supposedly takes place. And to emphasize the point (and give a strong reason for someone to pay the whole $2 million), the Gorillas take a finger (presumable from a corpse, or someone they've shaken down for gambling debts) and mail it to Elise's family, saying that it's hers and she'll lose more body parts if the full ransom isn't paid. This makes Avery crap his pants, as he didn't think they'd harm a hair on her head. And now they're asking for way more money than they were supposed to.
7. Upon news of the kidnapping, cocky Brett launches the stupid plan to kidnap a mob figure to hunt down Elise, and pay the ransom (instaed of making the dad do it...though I'm not sure why). This makes both Avery and Max sweat...especially Avery who feels amazingly guilty about this whole thing. But Avery agrees to go along with it, because he's realized that the situation has gotten out of control.
8. The Gorillas retrieve the $2 million that Charlie's lawyer fronted for the ransom. They give Elise half. And keep half for themselves.
9. Charlie is released (or rather, freed by Lono).
10. Brett is shot for his stupid, stupid plan. And he presumably lives.
11. Max runs off to secretly meet Elise and sail away to a tropical paradise with their $1 million. They never plan to let anyone in on their scheme, not even poor Avery.
12. In the end, Charlie and Lono figure out the scheme, and kill the Gorillas and Max and Elise...thus retrieving both bags containing $1 million each.
13. Avery's left thinking that the plan went horribly wrong, he got double-crossed, and the Gorillas killed Elise (since he never knew that she had never been grabbed).
14. Everyone else lives, because they were all seen by Charlie as pawns who got used.
The End.
Elise and Max expected Avery and Elise's father to pay the $2,000,000 ransom, but Avery mentions early in the movie that his father's wealth is all "on paper", that is, not available as a lump sum of cash.
If Brett had not learned of the "kidnapping" he would not have devised his long-shot plan of grabbing the ex-mob boss to get the ransom money.
Without Brett's plan, or some similar plan to come up with the ransom, I suppose Elise would have been mysteriously "released" by her "kidnappers" ... which would have still left Avery $50,000+ in debt to the gorillas ...
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Thanks Kate...I think this cleared it up for me...
I was confused about the money....I was wondering how Max/Elise got their share. I remember Lono or Walkin sayin' "this feels a little light" when they found the first bag of loot at the gorilla's house...
I figured Max/Elise somehow had scammed the gorillas of thier share also getting both millions...guess I was wrong.
Was the cat walking out really a factor in the movie?
Good thoughts on these posts.
Good movie, kinda unrealistic as some have pointed out, but VERY entertaining...
8/10
There was one other moment in the film where someone said the police were involved or they didn't want them involved, which would have probably been a natural step the father would have taken. So by getting the money from a mob boss they avoided involving the police(FBI)in any kind of marking or following of the father's money.
It would have been nice to see a scene added where the gorillas are trying to cut off a dead woman's finger at a morgue or paying a guy who works at a morgue. Something even a gambling debt shakedown. Could have been done with a little black humor.
This has turned out to be a great thread. All the facts from various posts coming together finally.
The cat was significant because up until that point we were led to believe that the gorillas actually had Elise, fake kidnapping or not. In fact the "she" that Brad Garett had to feed was indeed the cat. I also noticed that the gorilla on the right, answered "what girl" when questioned by Charlie as to Elise's(the girl's) whereabouts prior to the cat's appearance. Part of the irony/twist.
You can live on fishes but you can't live on wishes
I understood everything that happened, the problem is that it is extremely far-fetched. Although, it wasn't anymore far-fetched than the plot of Fargo. Even real life scenarios can be as crazy as this one, so I guess take it for what it is.
I am so smart, the only thing I can't comprehend is how stupid everyone else is