MovieChat Forums > Suicide Kings (1998) Discussion > *spoiler* Plot Hole, unless i missed som...

spoiler Plot Hole, unless i missed something spoilers

posted 20 years ago by TheNoc8
18 replies | jump to latest

OK, so i understood the movie in one go, though i am a little confused on a plot hole i encountered. The friends cut off Walken's finger because they got a package with the girls finger and they decided to do unto walken whatever happenens to her. However, we learn the kidnapping was a farce. Whose finger did they receive to instigate such an act. I mean, ive seen this before in Big Lebowski and the quesiton of the owner to the toe is answered...but they never give us that courtesy in this movie.

[–] 20 years ago

[deleted]

[–] akammrath 19 years ago

but then there's the scene where avery is asking TK if he thought it hurt when the kidnappers cut off elise's finger, and he seems pretty upset. it doesn't seem like he'd make that up at that point just for authenticity (especially since TK is the only one around). which makes me think there must have actually been a finger. from what we see of the two "kidnappers" they seem whacked out enough to have gone and cut off just anybody's finger to hold up they're charade (i mean, the one almost shoots the kid in the restaurant when he gets shot with the water pistol).

[–] ftheyankees04 19 years ago

the original plan was to get the money from averys parents, not charlie so there was a finger.Where they got the finger really isnt important to the story.

[–] paulmarkj 19 years ago

Didn't one of them have medical training? Perhaps with access to a hostpital? It wouldn't be difficult to get a body part from a hostpital - they throiw body parts away all the time.

[–] AmnesiaSparkles 19 years ago

I realize it's not important to the story, but I wondered about it, too.
Glad to see I wasn't the only one.

"You should respect my addiction. It's a disease. I need help, but just, not right now, okay?"

[–] ZeppJets 19 years ago

----Spoiler---

akammrath-
avery thinks she actually was kidnapped, and that it was his fault (remember the end when he's running into the hospital). max is the only one of them that knew the whole truth. so avery is being sincere in that scene with TK.

so i dont think there was a finger, but that opens up another plot hole: how did max fool the rest of them (especially avery) into thinking that there was a finger- if the "kidnappers" sent her finger, wouldn't they send it to avery's family?

"yea, well, sometimes nothin' can be a real cool hand"

[–] mgs202008 18 years ago

supposing everything went "according to plan," wouldn't avery notice that his sister was not missing a finger?

[–] 18 years ago

[deleted]

[–] ManicMovieMarauder 18 years ago

it was never going to go 'according to plan'...
...at least not avery's plan

max trumped it
when he met with the thugs
and talked them into asking for 2 million
instead of the 50 thousand

the new plan was
that max and avery's sister would run off together
and they would just assume her for dead & missing
therefore, never getting a chance to notice her finger

-M

[–] uidiot 16 years ago

There was a finger and it was Elise's. In the scene where she meets up with Max at the boat in the end, he kisses her hand which implies that she really did lose a finger. That's what I gathered at least.

[–] duckncvr 15 years ago

"There was a finger and it was Elise's."

No, you can clearly see all her fingers when she's walking down the boat dock towards max.

Dainty things never shrink from Lux!

[–] DP_IL 16 years ago

I might be wrong, but for some reason, I'm recalling a scene where a woman (not Elise) had a bandaged hand? I'm rewatching the movie right now, so once it's finished I'll either post a confirmation or a correction.

[–] MorbidKittyProductions 15 years ago

Elise went to that meeting WITH Max to see Brad Garrett & his buddy, and she said "NO ONE GETS HURT". they said who do we kidnap. "NO ONE" was the answer. that all implies she never really was ACTUALLY taken, much less HURT. so that means, the finger was from a cadaver or the like... seeing as TK is in training of some sort to be a Dr. (like dear ole dad; come to think of it, maybe daddy-o got the finger). either way, she obviously was in on it as well. b/c apparently she & Max wanted $$, and also to help her brother... soooo everyone was happy in the deal.
That's why Max sincerely "didn't want anyone hurt", and "nobody was supposed to get hurt".

Avery agreed, even though Jay Mohr's character made up the whole idea b/c I guess Max was dumb enough to put in "they'll cut off body parts each day until $$ comes", which means Jay Mohr's character was sadistic enough to go "oh that's cruel, let's get mafia dude to get the $$ and just ruin his life by cutting off body parts "eye for an eye" style, cuz that sounds fair to me"...
Jay Mohr's character was just a sadist. yuck lol

So all in all - Mohr's character is psycho only b/c Max made the mistake of not specifying to the "kidnappers" to NOT say "we'll cut off body parts when/if.." -- b/c then the cutting of fingers got involved.. before that, no one was to be kidnapped, much less hurt...

so yeah

http://www.unofficialbenhellerfansite.com/bhhome.html

[–] jim_ravensbergen 15 years ago

"the finger was from a cadaver or the like... seeing as TK is in training of some sort to be a Dr. (like dear ole dad; come to think of it, maybe daddy-o got the finger)."

TK was never in on Max's or Avery's plans

[–] MorbidKittyProductions 15 years ago

jim_ravensbergen = if TK was never in on the plans by either guy, then why was he there?? why did he lift a finger to do a thing?? he shouldn't have been present for anything if that was the case. if he's helping in any way it looks to others like he IS in on it. in some way anyway

http://www.unofficialbenhellerfansite.com/bhhome.html

[–] madmardigan53 12 years ago

He was in on the guys' plan to kidnap Walken, not Avery's plan to kidnap Elise or Max's plan to pretend to kidnap Elise.

[–] SSkull 15 years ago

Am I missing something here about why they cut charlies finger off?

I mean, yea they explain why they did it the whole eye for an eye thing, but it seems like they never intend to send it to anyone or do anything with it other than keep it on ice. It never seemed like they intended for the hostage situation to go on longer than that night so I'm assuming that cutting the finger off was pointless.

You could say it was to intimidate charlie into giving up the cash, but they know his background already so that would be pointless(trying to intimidate him that is) and they never seem to really rely on it.

[–] al666940-3 9 years ago

"Whose finger did they receive to instigate such an act."

Since the parents are nowhere to be found (clearly they were not contacted or the cops and FBI would be there), it's clear either Max or Avery alone were contacted.

And since Avery was also fooled (he did believe ELise was being held by these thugs), it's obvious he either saw a real finger or was told about it by someone he trusts (Max).

Since there's no indication whatsoever that a finger was obtained anywhere (TK was not in the know so he didn't take it off a corpse, and clearly ELise didn't give up any of her own fingers, plus her own brother would be able to tell if the finger belonged to her or not thus a corpse's finger is unlikely).

So the only option is Max, who was in the know.

He must've lied about HIM (as I said, ELise's parents were never contacted) being contacted and being sent Elise's finger, and passed this to Avery and everyone else.

It's the only explanation that makes sense, and plausible enough.

*spoiler* Plot Hole, unless i missed something *spoilers*

spoiler Plot Hole, unless i missed something spoilers