MovieChat Forums > Starship Troopers (1997) Discussion > Why did they kill *SPOILER*

Why did they kill *SPOILER*


Why'd they kill Dizzy? There was no need for it, she was clearly a better match for Johnny than Carmen, Carmen dumped him for her job, left him right before he'd have needed her the most, and probably (at least in earlier versions) had a relationship with Zander. As far as I'm concerned, Carmen should've been out of the movie after she left Johnny. Dizzy should've survived. If they wanted a deep emotional death scene, they could've killed of mini Gary Busey and focused a little more on their friendship. Her death was stupid too, the bugs stabbed everyone once (with both their arms or one of them) or bit them apart. Instead, Dizzy got stabbed 4 times in the chest to assure that she was dead. It was extremely forced and wasn't brought up for the rest of the film. Can anyone think of an actual reason they did it?

All those moments will be lost in time... like tears in rain...

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Why'd they kill Dizzy? There was no need for it

Observe:
1. Rico loses his family - mom and pop
2. Rico loses his lover - Dizzy
3. Rico is estranged from his first lover - Carmen
4. in addition, he loses comrades like Kitten Smith (the one with the tattoos), and is estranged from friends like Carl.

By the end of the movie, Rico lost all that was love in his life.

Rasczak taught Rico in school: "A citizen accepts personal responsibility for the safety of the body politic, defending it with his life."
When Dizzy's coffin is released in the void of space, Rico makes a modification to the mantra that the system tried to indoctrinate him with: Rico says "A citizen has the courage to make the safety of the human race their personal responsibility."

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Oh so the movie is just designed to be sort of a downer in that Rico, as you said, lost all the love from his life, and is forced to accept his responsibility to put his military duties ahead of everything else, and that's the satire? He's the society that puts military achievements over personal gain?

And I really really hoped I wouldn't die

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In the beginning of the movie, Rasczak is teaching Rico that a citizen accepts personal responsibility to protect the body of politic, aka the system of government, aka Sky Marshal Dienes.

We later see Sky Marshal Dienes on that Arachnid outpost, hidden in the closet, as all the marines died protecting "the body politic". That is, everybody on that outpost died protecting that dude, who is only concerned with his own survival, at the expense of everybody else.

Then, at Dizzy's funeral, Rico states: I now understand what is the difference between a civilian and a citizen. A citizen has the courage to make the safety of the human race their personal responsibility

The idea is that Rico replaces "body politic" with "human race":
Sky Marshal Dienes is the "body politic"
Dizzy, Carmen, Rico's parents, the marines, the fleet, are the "human race". I'll get back to this at the end.


The satire in Starship Troopers is complex, but an easily observable idea is, that the "body politic", aka the Sky Marshals, the Establishment, the ruling class, the power that be, the government, sacrifices you, me, Rico, Dizzy, Carmen, Zander, Rasczak, Kitten Smith, everybody else, the entire human race, only to perpetuate themselves, the Establishment.

A deeper idea of the satire is, that the Establishment deceives you with the following ideology:
1. a Civilian has to serve in the army, to become a Citizen.
2. a Citizen has power.
3. but you can soon see that the army is always at war, and
4. you either die, or get maimed physically and emotionally, in war.

We never see the promise fulfilled. No character on screen, other than the upper echelons - who never go in combat, completes the process of going from Civilian to Citizen, and exercising political power.

The same happens in our contemporary western society. We are being deceived with propaganda, about how we as citizens have the political power and stuff. In reality, we don't have power, because power is taken, not given, as Rasczak explains in the very beginning of this movie.


Back to how the movie is designed, consider this:
Starship Troopers is a satire against the western, American establishment.
Starship Troopers is produced in America, subject to American censorship.

So, the movie has to be subversive, because the MPAA censors any movie that goes against the American Establishment. Every movie is watched by an MPAA censorship commission, prior to release in theaters. You'd get horrible ratings, most theaters would not play your movie, the studio would get raided by IRS and all sorts of inspections, all that is needed to intimidate you into censoring yourself.

So, Starship Troopers, is the result of the writer and director's ambition of telling the audiences the truth about our western system of oppression, and the need to go beneath the radar of the censorship.
Make the movie appear as pro-Establishment, while camouflaging a deeper message, that the mofos in the censorship commission would miss, as they're not 100% dedicated to their task.

So, Rico saying "a citizens makes the protection of the human race his responsibility", is most likely a negotiation by the writer and director, with the censorship commission. It sounds neutral and generic, although it marks a refusal of the mantra "a citizen makes the protection of the body politic his responsibility"
The entire movie is the result of this negotiation. It is meandering, confused, ambiguous, most people think of it as a mindless pro-government pro-war movie. That's because you can't get a pass with an anti-Establishment movie, in America.
Director Verhoeven soon found himself isolated in the industry, despite his movies making profit.


Through Rico, you are supposed to realize that the Establishment is destroying you, for their own benefit. You will lose your loved ones, you will lose parts of your body, and you will lose your own life, to perpetuate the system put in place by a bunch of psychos who are enjoying life in their luxurious villas, in idyllic country scenery, while we are crammed together in polluted cities, slaving our lives away, for them, in perpetual fear of the Arachnids, Terrorists, Muslims, Illegal Aliens, Commies, etc.

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That is a lot more complex and sensical than what I was thinking. Thank you.

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Thank you so much for the insightful overview at the very core of the movie that I was oblivious to.

*bit of correction.
It was General Owen hiding in the closet, not the Sky Marshal.

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It was General Owen hiding in the closet, not the Sky Marshal.

Indeed. But note the similarity in appearance between the two.


and here a few more aspects of the western society, that are satirized in Starship Troopers.

Observe:
1. The marines empty entire magazines into the Arachnids, even though Carl shows how easy it is to disable an Arachnid by aiming at their nervous center.
2. The marines keep shooting at the Arachnids even after they're dead, body fluids flicking onto them.
3. The marines bathe together, men and women, with no eroticism.
4. Rico and Dizzy only get to explore each other sexually once, for 20 minutes, before going to war.
5. The four friends (Rico, Dizzy, Ace, Kitten) tattoo the words "Death From Above" and a skull, on their arms. Note that they are land army, not airborne.

If you have read a bit of Freud, he tells us that at the core of our psyche, are two fundamental Drives:
1. Life/Love/Eros Drive
2. Death/Aggression/Thanatos Drive

The metaphors created in Starship Troopers are:
1. The marines are being denied Love, Eros, Life. They sublimate their Erotic needs into Aggression. The marines emptying their magazines into dead arachnids, are having abominable Sex with Corpses.

2. The marines are sexually/erotically neutered. When they bathe together males and females, it's not because they are in control of their erotic impulses, but because they are mentally castrated, sexually undifferentiated, erotically dormant. They are not Men and Women, they are Cannon Fodder. Asexual Military Drones.
There are a couple of scenes where the marines give weapons to kids, to play, and kids stomping cockroaches. The Marines are the kids, and the Arachnids are the cockroaches.

3. Death From Above branded on the four marines friends' arms, refers to the Establishment, the body politic, the Sky Marshals - the 'sky' is 'above', who are killing the marines.
The lower class, the exploited, the marines, the fleet, Rico and Dizzy, Carmen and Zander, you and me, we are being shepherded into the valley of death, by the oppressing class above us. By suppressing the Erotic impulses in Rico and Dizzy, the body politic effectively converts them into Dead/Aggressive/Thanatic beings. At one point, Rico is brought back to "life", only to be sent to war, again.

The same happens in our western society. Most people are Erotically barren. Either obese, too disgusted to feel sexual arousal, physiologically incapable, or hooked on porn or prostitution, not engaging in erotic - physical or emotional - connection.
Most people don't experience Love, Eroticism, Life.

When Love/Eroticism/Life is removed from your existence, what you're left with is Aggression/Death. Your existence converted into perpetual war and destruction. Hell.
This is why the Zombies are such a relevant concept in our contemporary society. The exploited are not physically dead, but we aren't alive either.

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On the "Death from above", I think they mean that they come down from the drop ships, just like paratroopers uses their parachutes to drop down on their enemies. But yes, one can enterpretate it as being ordered from the Sky Marchall to kill bugs.

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On the "Death from above", I think they mean that they come down from the drop ships, just like paratroopers uses their parachutes to drop down on their enemies. But yes, one can enterpretate it as being ordered from the Sky Marchall to kill bugs.

You can look at it from a profane point of view, yes. In the profane plane, that tattoo means what you said: they are deployed by dropships from above.

What I'm sharing to you, is the understanding that some artists use symbolism in some of their works:
Look at Michelangelo's The Creation of Adam. Apparently it's a painting of God giving life to Adam. At a closer look, the ensemble God's a part of, forms the shape of a brain.
What Michelangelo does, is using symbolism to communicate a in the sacred plane: "the Mind is God, the Mind creates the Man".

So, if you try to see beyond the concrete, profane plane, in Starship Troopers, you understand that the "above" is ruled by "sky marshals".
They were 4 friends who tattooed "Death from above" on their arms. Dizzy and Kitten died, Rico almost died but was resurrected, and Ace survived, if I recall correctly.

What Verhoeven is saying with this movie, is that the ruling class parasitizes the human race, killing it by sending it to die in an endless war.

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1. The marines empty entire magazines into the Arachnids, even though Carl shows how easy it is to disable an Arachnid by aiming at their nervous center.


The Roughnecks are depicted as more efficient killers compared to other units, this may be due to better combat experience or training.

2. The marines keep shooting at the Arachnids even after they're dead, body fluids flicking onto them.


Warrior bugs may appear to be dead when in fact they are alive, we saw this when Rico sustained his leg injury. It would appear that troopers like to make sure they don't get up again. The body fluids that fly on to them could be seen in a sexual context if you choose to, but in terms of the film it is just gore.

3. The marines bathe together, men and women, with no eroticism.


Actually that isn't true, the point is there is no sexism in the future, we are all equal. This theme was shown a little in robocop, and shown fully here.

4. Rico and Dizzy only get to explore each other sexually once, for 20 minutes, before going to war.


Actually they were already on deployment during that time, but whatever.

5. The four friends (Rico, Dizzy, Ace, Kitten) tattoo the words "Death From Above" and a skull, on their arms. Note that they are land army, not airborne.


Death from above - Orbitial infantry, inserted by troop carrier/drop ship from fleet assets. The name fits.

1. The marines are being denied Love, Eros, Life. They sublimate their Erotic needs into Aggression. The marines emptying their magazines into dead arachnids, are having abominable Sex with Corpses.


No, this is not Full Metal Jacket. Troops are not denied relations, the movie contains love and relationship plots.

2. The marines are sexually/erotically neutered. When they bathe together males and females, it's not because they are in control of their erotic impulses, but because they are mentally castrated, sexually undifferentiated, erotically dormant. They are not Men and Women, they are Cannon Fodder. Asexual Military Drones.
There are a couple of scenes where the marines give weapons to kids, to play, and kids stomping cockroaches. The Marines are the kids, and the Arachnids are the cockroaches.


No they are not mentally castrated, they are expendable to an extent however. The FedNet scenes of soldiers educating kids to enjoy Military aspects and inspire a hatred of insects serves as propaganda for the upcoming invasion at the time and to encourage kids to admire miltiary roles and later serve in life.

3. Death From Above branded on the four marines friends' arms, refers to the Establishment, the body politic, the Sky Marshals - the 'sky' is 'above', who are killing the marines.
The lower class, the exploited, the marines, the fleet, Rico and Dizzy, Carmen and Zander, you and me, we are being shepherded into the valley of death, by the oppressing class above us. By suppressing the Erotic impulses in Rico and Dizzy, the body politic effectively converts them into Dead/Aggressive/Thanatic beings. At one point, Rico is brought back to "life", only to be sent to war, again.


The political body of the Federation was formed by military vetrans that are against the the establishment you describe.

The lower class, are not exploited but in fact provided with benifits for their service in an effort to encourage recruitment. Did you forget that out of all of Rico's original squad mates, only ACE signed up with the intention of a military career?

You really do not grasp the point to Starship troopers, and that point is that "war makes fascists of us all".

Your obese, disgusting society of disconnected citizens does not reflect Federation Society at all, where people appear very content with their lives. No the true message here is that despite all of this, the Federation HAS the best intentions for humanity, they WANT peace, but they are so single minded on how to achieve peace, they cannot and will not tolerate any alternatives other than the application of FORCE. And this attitude ends up causing a great war where the survival of humanity is at risk! Over what? Bugs that wouldn't be left alone!

Take note of the Cuban Missile Crsis, take note of the Iraq War, people WANTED blood after 9/11, this is the POINT here! Freedom loving, peace loving people, who find themselves in some kind of external conflict, can become the same cold hearted, intolerate fascists we claim not to be!

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A deeper idea of the satire is, that the Establishment deceives you with the following ideology:
1. a Civilian has to serve in the army, to become a Citizen.
2. a Citizen has power.
3. but you can soon see that the army is always at war, and
4. you either die, or get maimed physically and emotionally, in war.


I understand your premise, and that may even be how the director thought of the film, but it is not really the premise of the book.

1. A civilian just has to serve ... not in the military.

2. A citizen does have franchise power, and with that comes responsibility.

3. The army was not always at war. They are at war with the bugs though.

4. One certainly can. That is why chicken hawks are not allowed to vote or hold office.

By the way, Dizzy was a guy in the book.

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but it is not really the premise of the book.

It has been stated numerous times, that the movie is not the book.
I am discussing the movie, what we see on screen.

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Christ almighty, so much hand-wringing in this thread.

The movie starts with Johnny Rico and Carmen.
Love triangle (really a quad) ensues.
Johnny loses Dizzy. Carmen loses Docheguy.
The movie ends with Johnny Rico and Carmen.




I couldn't believe when I read his filmography that he played a toilet (no joke) in According to Jim

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