MovieChat Forums > Starship Troopers (1997) Discussion > I'm confused, is this intended to critic...

I'm confused, is this intended to criticize fascism, or celebrate it?!!


Because the more I watch the movie (love Verhoeven), the more I'm unsure what it is that I'm seeing.

I know the director, coming from Denmark (or somewhere like that) clearly intended the film to be a satire of how absurd fascism can be, even in it's most appealing form (like in the movie where everything seems peachy, or Nazi Germany before the war if you were the right race and political affiliation). But I'm thinking the director clearly missed the mark (like those antiwar movies that have so awesome battle scenes that people end up cheering the action instead of being disgusted by it):
a) What the movie got right:
- The propaganda machine: the best and clearest part of the movie. I doubt anyone gets that wrong.
- The manipulation through the news and patriotism (that reporter being cut off when mentioning that humans started the mess in fact, not the bugs, Rico eating up and later acting out everything/anything Razjack said to him, etc).

b) What the movie got wrong:
- Unlike in real fascism, there were no oppressed minorities/political opponents here (you know, blacks, jews, indians, etc). The place is presented as literally heaven on Earth (no poverty, crime, suffering, etc). At the simple cost of giving up democracy? I'm pretty sure most poor unstable democracies on Earth would jump on that wagon in a split second. Which is simply impossible (like having a Nazi Germany without jew persecution, racism, forced labour of "inferior" races, invasion of other countries, etc).
- Unlike in totalitarian regimes (all fascist regimes end up becoming totalitarian), people were not being conscripted into the armed forced. In fact many people are seen living just fine as civilians without feeling the need to serve to secure citizenship (Rico's parents are against service and seem pretty well off). And even the privates in the showers are elated at all the incentives (bribes) offered at those who serve (free tuition, etc). The fact that most will die before collecting is never mentioned or even hinted at (the death toll at Khlendatu is presented as an anomaly that cost the sky marshal his job, thus we only get the idea that service is dangerous, but not a death sentence).
- The military leaders we get to know (Razjack and Zimm) end up giving the opposite intended impression:
Zimm: as sadistic as he may be, he's shown to be thoughtful, practical, even appealable (helping out Rico).
Razjack: the guy's fascist indoctrination is like Edward Norton's neonazi rants in American History X: as compelling as possible, coming from a likeable sincere person, and go unchallenged except by clear idiots. How many people don't end up wishing every military unit had a leader like him?
- The military intelligence officers (Doogie Howser playing Gestapo dress up) are shown callous and cold with people's lives, but are given unchallenged excuses (it's a numbers game, the bugs have more) and thus also end up getting the upper hand and moral high ground.
- People hungry for war/combat (Zimm) are actually rewarded and cary the day (he captured the brain bug), thus giving the impression that the warmongers are actually right and willing to fight their own battles (Hitler was indeed a veteran and when the chips came down he abided by his orders to others to resist until death, but in all honesty such example is not representative of these types. Dick "5 deferments/I had more important things to do" Cheney is).

So if this movie was supposed to dissuade people into thinking fascism (or totalitarism for that matter) is a viable option, it seriously misfired (current democracy already performs far worse and is more cruel in real life, just ask any Iraqi, Egyptian or Lybian how's that US made/backed democracy feeling right now).

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[deleted]

Criticize fascism, believe me! Most people think the director made this a B-movie and a fascist movie but if you see Robocop and others it is very easy to see why this director employs the B-movie feel, expertly, which is why nobody else would make Starship Troopers (the film) what is today! I leave you with the scene when the children and the mother are squashing bugs and the mother is laughing maniacally.

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1) The novel didn't promote fascism (for the left, everything that even remotely smells of right-wing values is fascist in their eyes). In fact, its ideas regarding the necessity for an individual to "earn" the right to partake into the political process was inspired by Athenian democracy (a democracy, even a militaristic one, being the opposite of a fascist society).

2) It is questionable whether Verhoeven understood or even read the novel, but the film still uses the basic outline of the book as the set up for the story. Now obviously the society portrayed in the novel was shown to be a good one, something which is carried in the movie as well. It is possible that Verhoeven wanted to "satirize" the novel by letting the book condemn itself, but the result is the opposite of that because it is unclear why the society portrayed in the film is supposed to be a bad one and the way the characters grow through out the movie even does the novel justice. Rico goes from being some dumb and naive college graduate to becoming a war hero and a mature individual fully capable of handling the responsibility for making political decisions. Considering the type of people our schools are producing right now, one wonders whether it wouldn't be better if the right to vote was something one earned rather being given willy nilly.

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It's very clear why human society is portrayed as a bad one.

It's exceedingly clear that there is no way the bugs could have "hit" Buenos Aires, for instance - Klendathu being located pretty much on the other side of the galaxy. It would have taken that asteroid about 20,000 years to reach Earth, if it travelled at the speed of light; and it wasn't.

Humanity is the invasive species and aggressor. Humanity is attempting to eradicate another species, because humanity wants to expand its borders. You know: "Lebensraum".

one wonders whether it wouldn't be better if the right to vote was something one earned rather being given willy nilly.


Ah yes... a political elite being the only ones who can set policy, and being voted into that power by a "social elite" who take care of the big issues because, well, the average humans are "just like children, really". Taking the power out of the hands of the people, and putting it into the hands of a "social elite" - whose sole membership requirement is that you fit the ideals set by the "social elite", and if you're not a member you have no say about anything... I think you see where I'm going with this.

You may not like hearing it, but the society portrayed in Starship Troopers is very much a type of fascist, totalitarian state. Both in the novel and the movie. The main difference is that Verhoeven portrayed humanity as the bad guys.

Quidquid Latinae dictum sit, altum viditur.

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Humanity is the invasive species and aggressor. Humanity is attempting to eradicate another species, because humanity wants to expand its borders. You know: "Lebensraum".

The perpetual war is not for expansion. The perpetual war is so that the Civilians who want power by becoming Citizens, are exterminated, as they have to serve in the military.

That is why Rico and his friends are fighting in t-shirts and with just their rifles, no armor and no artillery. That is why the battle cruisers bump into each other like headless chickens in the immensity of space.

War is to purge those who want power, from the social hierarchy.

You may not like hearing it, but the society portrayed in Starship Troopers is very much a type of fascist, totalitarian state. Both in the novel and the movie. The main difference is that Verhoeven portrayed humanity as the bad guys.

Verhoeven portrayed the oppressing class as the bad guys.

Rico is being indoctrinated in school with a false truth: that the Citizen accepts personal responsibility for the safety of the Body Politic.

At Dizzy's funeral, Rico completed a fundamental paradigm shift: the Citizen has the courage to make the safety of the Human Race his personal responsibility.

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2) It is questionable whether Verhoeven understood or even read the novel, but the film still uses the basic outline of the book as the set up for the story.

Actually the film was written before they even knew about the book. One day someone came in with it and pointed out the numerous similarities, so they optioned the rights to the novel and capitalised on it to avoid possible lawsuits ofer said similarities.
Verhoeven did not finish reading the book as he found it too depressing, but a number of other crew did and he used them to inform some of the direction.

So in essence, it is not and was never intended to be 'the film of the book'... and is probably best if you don't view it as such.

It is possible that Verhoeven wanted to "satirize" the novel by letting the book condemn itself, but the result is the opposite of that because it is unclear why the society portrayed in the film is supposed to be a bad one and the way the characters grow through out the movie even does the novel justice.

He does many things - He satirises the book, but also shows the good aspects, while drawing the audience in through their love of cheesy popcorn violence, before satirising them, making them feel guilty for rooting for what are essentially the bad guys, and additionally making fun of stereotypical American cinema. So on the one hand, it is cheesy crap, but on the other you're supposed to like it, and on another it's a guilty pleasure... All depends on how many of the different perspectives you want to look from at the same time.

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Part of the problem may be that you have a view of Fascism highly influenced by Western Propaganda. Verhoeven saw real Fascism, not the cartoonishly evil version depicted in American and European media and schools.

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Very probable. I felt Verhoeven was making a rather tongue-in-cheek film about fascism. It was hard to miss the way most military costumes in the film were inspired by WW2 German Army and SS uniforms. It was obviously a deliberate choice. The situation is very black and white - the human protagonists are mostly good-looking and youthful, the bugs are extremely ugly.

"Chicken soup - with a *beep* straw."

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I remember the first time I read about the movie playing a joke on the audience by portraying a quasi-fascist civilization on earth as a heroic one. I was more distracted by cool CGI creatures, the spectacle of the violence and action and the bizarre first half of film, which felt like Saved by the Bell if it took place in the near future and was played by 30 year old actors.

I was fooled, and you feel kinda gross after liking the movie a lot for pumping you up like that, and eventually you grow up and catch some of the undertones later on, haha. After I read those reviews that illuminated the fascistic elements (S.S. uniforms, propaganda instead of news) I instantly rewatched the movie as an adult and it was pretty interesting.

Verhoeven doesn't seem to be critiquing soldiers as much as he is critiquing war itself as being a problem that problematic symptoms stem from. Obviously the movie is nuanced and it isn't trying to say "anyone who fights in a war is basically a nazi", which would be a huge oversimplification.

But it shows a future where war is the norm. Sending marines out to fight literally all the time is the norm. etc. And if there ever was a future like that, the society would more or less be run by the war machine and social norms would stem from that far-right culture. This would naturally be problematic, even IF our enemies were literally giant, murderous, monster insect beast from space, because our society would never get a chance to know what peace is.

But the movie seems to do a good job of not demonizing all the soldiers, even portraying some of them as genuine heroes in their own right (some also kinda heroic but in a more absurd and ironic way). After all, the enemies the main characters are up against in the movie are not freedom fighters - they are giant, murdering, emotionless insects.

There is the surface interpretation: A blockbuster action sci-fi movie where a the need for constant war against an obvious evil threat causes the military to be the biggest cog in the sociopolitical machine that becomes part of the education system and recruits youth and over time possibly dehumanizes society to some degree. But, I mean, what can you do? You're fighting giant, murdering space monsters that want to kill us all. Seems pretty clear cut that humans are sucked into that situation and must do what is needed to survive. Their daily life is one of survival to protect the species instead of one based on emotional needs. Hmmm....not that much different from...insects? So it seems to play around with how the military can be structured like a hive mind organization, that while necessary at times, is capable of taking some of the humanity of those who end up taking the whole military culture too seriously.

And the movie also gets kinda cerebral when you realize that, maybe on another level, the movie is trying to get inside the heads of those tricked into being brainwashed and/or brainwashing themselves via military culture. There are probably many soldiers who view fighting terrorism in the middle east as no different than fighting murderous bugs. When you watch the movie on that level, a more allegorical one, is when you might start feeling kinda nauseous about cheering for all the characters earlier. It kinda wants you to feel a bit of shock, more than be mindlessly entertained, and in that way it is kinda brilliant. Once you realize that one of your favorite big-budget action monster movies is somewhat trying to cleverly get you into to like it for many wrong reasons...maybe you end up seeing it as a comedy. Maybe you dun got rubed, rube.

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The society is in many ways the ideal one if you are very, very right-wing. Permanent state of war, near-instant "justice", with a man caught, convicted of murder in the space of a few hours and his execution to be televised that evening. I believe the film's screenwriter plays the convicted murderer. Also very satirical. The line, "They sucked his brains out" had me actually laughing from the way it was delivered, and Rascak almost appears to be having an orgasm after Rico kills the enormous bug.

"Chicken soup - with a *beep* straw."

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The movie basically made me join up as an 18-year old in the Swedish army. Hated it though, but well... if it's a CRITIQUE of fascism, it has clearly backfired because I can sonly see it as a MASSIVE endorsement of fascism. Currently, at 28, I think fascism would be way better than what we have today in Sweden, a country governed by imbeciles that completely ignore any rational thought or tough choices and let the country fall to *beep*

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Assuming you're trolling, if its any consolation you can take comfort in knowing I laughed very hard while reading your post. if not...I don't know what to say, man............. *beep* off?

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In this rate, Sweden is on the way to be a 3rd-world Sharia cesspool.
Horrible country, as if the cold climate isn't bad enough.

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Yes, we are well under way to that destination. All thanks to our wonderful politicians.

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