"You have to give it credit for having a good amount of quality actors, great cgi and okay storyline. Its an action pack movie its not a drama filled tears movie."
It's not unheard of for a $hit movie to have quality actors with decent/good CGI. In terms of this movie, it has great CGI, but the acting and story is lousy. The movie is a lesser version of "Aliens", but what makes it particularly problematic is that it's all flash, no effect. Paul Verhoeven loves to make big, slick packages of full-on sex and violence. In certain cases such as "Robocop", it could work - the rest of the time his films become bludgeoning, overstated and with a forward-heavy brutality that treats the people in them with callous disregard. This is even more evident in "Starship Troopers" than it is in other Verhoeven films – Verhoeven leaps in with a high degree of violence directed against aliens, and shows the cast being shot up, gored and hacked apart with great enthusiasm. Even worse, the movie both wants to portray this society with black satirical relish and at the same time pose for heroic triumph. It tries to celebrate hero Casper Van Dien in saving his girlfriend Denise Richards and humanity achieving a major victory over the Bugs (although the climax fails to finish the Bugs off and ends only on the winning of a potential advantage against them thus leaving the way open for a sequel). However, these heroic victories are considerably undercut by Verhoeven cutting away to blackly sadistic scenes of humanity torturing the bugs and satirical public service announcements/recruiting ads featuring the main characters. This final coda shows a film divided against itself – while also celebrating its heroic triumph, the satiric scenes belittling the heroes surely shows that Verhoeven doesn’t care about this. It also shows that, despite the satirical presentation of his society, the film will gleefully jump in with a bit of mindless torture to an inhuman object for the sake of a laugh. As a result, you have a film that seems to celebrate the xenophobia represented by the likes of "Independence Day" taken to a mindless extreme, while also trying to satirise the society that upholds such – in other words, at the same time as it is making a statement supposedly about the mindless xenophobia of a militaristic society, it is a film that is also applauding the same mindless violence with an enthusiastic cheer.
"This movie was more action packed based. A good summer popcorn. Aliens is more theme type and serious."
The thing you have to consider, though, is that the novel by Robert Heinlein was, as far I know, THE first militaristic science fiction novel - in fact, it paved the way for countless movies, video games and anime, "Aliens" and "Halo" included. It also paved the way for the Mecha genre itself. Even more, "Starship Troopers" is a required reading text for several US military academies. That should tell you how significant the novel is.
"I didnt know they messed up that novel. thats messed up. i hate when they do that. they couldve just as easily made the film without adding a novel based to it and rebutching it."
Initially, the film started as an original script about war in space until someone pointed out the similarities to the Heinlein book. Rather than face accusations of plagiarism, the producers brought up the rights to the Heinlein novel, made a few surface changes such as naming some of the characters after the ones in the book, retained Heinlein’s idea of a militaristic future, but mostly went back and made the film they originally intended to. There are few more blatant examples within the genre of all-but outright contempt for source material than this – Verhoeven claims that he started reading the Heinlein book but became “bored and depressed” after several chapters and went away and made the rest up.
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bigbadwolf666
8 years ago
*beep* movie? so im guessing you dont like it.
For me it is unheard of. Especially good actors giving bad performances. I thought Michael Ironside was incredible as he usually is, Brown was great, and busey was enjoyable. Denise and Dina along with Casper gave one of their more memoriable performances and it definitely helped with dina showing her assets. Muldoon was fine in it. I'm sure there were others. The supporting cast got a decent amount of attention. It wasnt all about the main cast. To me the story and acting was fine. Like i said before its an action packed film. You cant expected shakespare. If your looking for that its in the drama department. Have you seen todays' movies? Its all CGi Like avatar. You barely see any acting. The aliens in starship dont come till like the second half and they dont have much of a storyline all being about the characters.
Some of Paul's films are considered classic like total Recall, Basic Instinct didnt have much action and to me was a bore, I know a lot of people liked hollow man i thought it was so-so i'm a fan of bacon so thats why i like it, I never really liked total recall but its not one of the worst films out there and i like stone in it, dont laugh okay? but i have to say showgirls has always been a guilty pleasure and i never understood why it was so hated, i really like the storyline, acting, and of course the nudity. TO me he has good taste in nudity. It isnt distasteful. I dont remember thinking the nude scenes in show girls were pornographic instead erotic and artistic. Nicely done by the best actresses showing their hot bodies in a not so porno way. It was well done with the story and i felt more for the characters than for the nudity.
Overall i gotta say i love his work. Not to mention Robocop which i love. i was checking the super hot nancy allen and im so glad he casted her in the film, she was perfect and i dont think those movies wouldve had the same elements without her. I saw her in dressed to kill twice last night and i gotta say though she was cast as an escort girl and she definitely has the look and there is plenty of steamy scenes of her in it it doesnt suit her to me what suits her is lewis and if it wasnt for him i dont think we'd ever see her as lewis her most famous and liked role.
Im sure there are better directors out there in the history of cinema but i dont think he’s bad and if he had gotten more opportunity he might’ve given more a lot more good films.
When you say that paul directed aliens and shows cast being shot up as gory and hacked with great enthusiam though your probably right the way i took it was that thats how the military is and treats its people and i totally agree with that and i think the audience got that as well. There is much abuse and violence in and out of the military and all of it is glorified and if your against it your considered a loser kinda like in district 9. The way he portrayed the military ironically is the most realistic ive seen than in most movies. They abuse their soldiers and then expect the best out of them and expect them to do everything. Its totally insane. The movie was obviously trying to criticise the military and in that i think they did it right.
These scenes you call sadistic and satirical while giving recuriting ads is how it happens in the real world. So though the movie its an action packed cgi under it its also social commentary which is probably why i like it. Like robocop or one my very favorites Candyman, which if you ask me isnt really all about the Candyman. To me films are admired, influences, and political statements and should have positive critique.
I think it shows Paul does care about final coda because if it didnt it wouldnt be in his film and it wouldnt be a recuring theme in his films.
When you say the film seems to celebrate the torture of an inhuman object for the sake of a laugh i think this is an allegory for real life where soldiers kill millions of people with their bare hands and laugh about it and joke about it afterwards as for sport. It isnt for the audience or to get a rise out of audience but a critique. I dont know why i always took it that way in the film. It wasnt hard for me perceive it. I cant describe right now how I got like that, but to me it made sense.
I dont know if you can compare this to indepence day. Another totally different film which i take as a bit more serious theme. Might be better but for popcorn fun i like this one. lol. i like the cheese!
Though Im not that big of a fan of this film and im going to confess this for the first time ever! I used to hate this film and never wanted to watch it. I used to watch all the movies that came out in the theaters but this one i skipped and if anyone mentioned it i panned it, simply because i hated the name. I hated the way it sounded. It sounded like some sort of stupid video game. But i was always a fan of denise richards. Hot! no? So i gave it a shot many years later and i thought it wasnt bad. I didnt like casper at the time but through time and maturing ive gotten this film better and have liked it. Im actually surprised it has such a high rating here. i expected it to be much lower so im not alone though i know many people at the time liked it. Theyve been giving it a lot lately and thats ive been coming here. i cant believe denise dated and still bangs Muldon. SHes a slut and has terrible taste. Sheen, Sambora? Crazy. But she always was a golddigging bimbo.
Since im not that big of a fan i never actually know the backstory behind it and production. You bash it for being based on the novel badly which is fine but then you explain they had no choice because they feared being sued by its similarites so if you ask me it wasnt their fault. I agree that they shouldnt have based on it if it wasnt there intention to do it close to the source but nowadays with suits and damages i dont blame them for trying to prevent it. I dont blame Paul for reading it and feeling depressed and bore but i do think it creates resentment from fans from the novel not to do the film right. I did prefer this type of film to a boring depressing film like alien the first one. I did enjoy the second one and third one and im not saying the first one is bad because its not but typically when i go for a summer blockbuster i tend to enjoy this type of film over others more serious ones and i think that was the intend for this one. so in that small regard it succeeded for me and i was a beneficary.
I will add I really liked how simply complicated they made their characters. Casper left his entire family over a girl. Its totally stupid but in reality that happens all time so it makes perfect sense. Over a beautiful girl who left a perfect guy over a guy with a higher power looks stupid but it happens all time. Another beautiful girl that could be even more beautiful than the guys girlfriend leave her entire life over a guy which she could probably could get elsewhere and probably better and even though she chased through high school and didn’t get nowhere she had the obsession to follow him all the way to the same squad he was in. Looks stupid but it does happen. A higher ranked soldier that should be looking for retirement or another title decides to leave his rank and benefits to fight for his comrades. Completely stupid but it has happened. The nonexpected and nonsensical cold violence. It was well done. Friends dying before their eyes and them moving on like it was nothing. When Dina dies I didn’t see Casp that remorseful. He seemed more concern with Denise. Totally cold if you ask me. One of my favorite lines of the film is when ironside tells casper not to let dina down and then his stupid ass then decides to give her a go. I actually appreciated that from the movie because it was like obvious but this guy was a total idiot and duch. But again in real life in does happen. Ive had many friends both boys and girls had the opportunity to be with a great partner but for whatever reason they reject them and it never happens. Though ive drolled on denise in film for a long time every time they give it I cant help but want to eat out dina and pass out.
Why am I such a misfit? I am not just a nitwit.
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evolution_500_2
8 years ago
"For me it is unheard of. Especially good actors giving bad performances"
There are plenty of examples. "BloodRayne" is one such example, it had Ben Kingsley and Michael Madsen.
"Some of Paul's films are considered classic like total Recall,"
Another example of a work ruined by Verhoeven.
"When you say that paul directed aliens and shows cast being shot up as gory and hacked with great enthusiam though your probably right the way i took it was that thats how the military is and treats its people and i totally agree with that and i think the audience got that as well."
Definitely not.
"The way he portrayed the military ironically is the most realistic ive seen than in most movies. They abuse their soldiers and then expect the best out of them and expect them to do everything. Its totally insane. The movie was obviously trying to criticise the military and in that i think they did it right."
It's definitely not the most realistic portrayal. Not even close. For one, a lot of the soldiers in the movie were gung-ho idiots - there's no unit cohesion or coordination, just a bunch of running-and-gunning like in a video game. What was heavily emphasized within the novel was that they were looking for good, well-trained soldiers to put onto the field - anyone even close to these guys would be a liability. In terms of the movie, it's trying to satirize fascism, but it doesn't really explain why. Say what you will about the society but in terms of its depiction we go from one version (Heinlein) that at least offers a strong and potent argument in favour of why it should be that way to a version (the film) that satirises the society and regards everything as a big black joke but offers no particular reason or argument why other than to inundate the audience with a spectacle of mass slaughter. "Starship Troopers" does not so much skewer militarism as it depicts it and adds the occasional raised eyebrow. This is satire in the same way repeating what someone says in an intentionally dumb-sounding voice is an impersonation. Real, penetrating satire sneaks up on you and causes you consider things from a new angle. It involves a good deal more than simply showing the thing and winking.
"I dont know if you can compare this to indepence day. Another totally different film which i take as a bit more serious theme."
They're both war movies about fighting aliens with tons of action, although the violence and xenophobia in "SST" is through the roof.
"You bash it for being based on the novel badly which is fine but then you explain they had no choice because they feared being sued by its similarites so if you ask me it wasnt their fault."
They did have a choice, they just opted to take the cowardly way out and bastardize the novel rather than do their own thing. "Godzilla" 1954 had the same premise as "Beast from 20,000 Fathoms", but Toho (the company responsible for the former) made Godzilla into its own distinct thing without having to buy the copyright from the latter.
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bigbadwolf666
8 years ago
I was refering to that it is unheard of for a good amount of quality actors making a good quality cgi movie with an okay storyline that is current and by that I mean actually having a role and not just phoning it because i do remember big box office movies have a lot of good actors and all giving career worst performances.
Sorry i didnt quote and because of that it couldve been very confusing.
You know, I'd like to know what you think of the new marvel movies especially apocalypse since i thought it was a pretty good movie i don’t know i got the sense that some of it wasnt close to the comic source.
Ive never actually seen bloodrayne but ive always heard its bad though I know a lot of people that have watched it and it does seem like it could be one of those so bad its good kind. But since im not sure even what its about at all. I really have no idea. if you tell me to watch it, ill add it to my to do list. i think i thought about watching it once when it first came out by the theme and poster didnt attract me so i never watched it. if im not mistaken i think there was a sequel. I know it has big assembled cast.
I dont know what to think of those two. Many many times Ben Kingsley gives terrible performances and picks the worst films but he does have some epics even now. So i dont know what to say about him. About Madsen is far worst, Great looking guy and some few great films but he has a lot more duds then good I think. i cant remember that much since im not a huge fan of his. I like him in species, i think a bit in kill bill, Free willy, Thema and Lewis, I remember now Donnie Brasco his really good in it to me probably his best. The rest probably suck. He has along string of duds.
I dont know much about total recall as i said not a big fan but its always been really liked and given countless times. Its not the worst of films. Arnold gets good credit for it and they did the stupid colin remake.
When i said realistic way the military is portrayed i meant its soul. of course you understand its a made up military, with aliens, and a different planet in a video game aspect. But its soul was there. How the captain abuses its soldiers like the knife throwing incident over a reasonable question on a silly tone. Or when they kill the soldier by accident blame it all on 2 people though obviously it wasnt just there fault nor should be blamed for becauase it was a total accident and before being dismissed and career suicide they rerecurit him because " they need" people. The military abusing the aliens under the guise of studying them. The pranks and jokes. The nudity. The sex and drinking. When the captain challenges the new students knowing full well that he is fully trained and then brakes one of the guys arm a second later beats up a girl( Dina) and knocks her out. I knew many guys have told me such stories of being challenged by a superior and of course if they actually kick his ass they get kicked out and gang beaten. The bad food they show. I mean they show case a lot, wayyyy too much for this type of movie. They really put some effort and thought into it. As I said it had its soul of it.
Well maybe it tries to Satirize facism becauase it feels that’s how our military is and doesn’t give an explaination why because it assumes we know it exist or agrees with it. Many films or articles are like that which is why I hated school. They wanted like a scientific evidence on everything you wrote to the put of writing where did the word “the” come from. They didn’t want you to just give your thoughts even though everyone knew them didn’t matter if they agreed or not. Many films and articles are like that but not in school where they give a statement with no backing or evidence your suppose to either go along with it or disagree without even having a chance of a debate. This movie isnt an A-Rate movie where you can go that deep into it. It went as far as it could go. I think if it went any deeper it wouldn’t be an action pack movie and that wouldve been getting away from its purpose. It didn’t want to just be a regular boring action movie with no purpose but it didn’t want to be a drama military movie GI Jane either. So it was somewhere in the middle. Give and take, give and take. Independence day was far from perfect though great cgi and widescreen. To me alien had several flaws. I don’t know why I kinda liked space odessay 2000 but to me it has many flaws and the movie isnt for anyone. It can be quite boring for many. To me the abyss is more of a technical movie that has some deep themes and can answer almost all of your questions with some perfect cgi ahead of its time. Another one is the thing of course. But those type of movies are far too serious to what this teeny booper film wanted to do and sometimes you just want sit back and relax. Catch a boob or two? Hehehheheheehe.
I don’t see Independence day similar to star ship. I don’t know why. I get what your saying. But indepence tries to be serious. We are being attacked by aliens. Attacking all the premises of real ufo’s ethusiams. While this one( starship) we are in space, the aliens don’t look as realistic. They are military not like in indepence day where they are civilians. In Starship the cast is mostly military and good looking. In indepence day it’s a huge variety with a couple of A-Listers. Indepence also felt more political. It has common people being heros. Aliens being a real threat. Lost of hope for earth. I just don’t see that many similaries except for what you mentioned.
Yea but you have to see their point of view. If they can save for what could be a potentially expensive suit why wouldn’t you do it? They probably also thought they can steal a couple of fans not knowing they were going to watch something that wasn’t like the novel. Not everyone is willing to give up millions for pride. This industry has gone completely belly up where its all about the money and nobody cares about anything else. So though you think they should do what the Japanese( I think) from another country doesn’t mean they’ll do the same based on money. Starship was in no doubt a money movie meant to make millions. I don’t even think godzilla has made as much. I mean would you risk millions? I don’t know any who would. With laws and corrupt lawyers anything is possible I rather protect my investment. At least they admitted it that’s why they did it rather then cover that up to. Maybe for fans like you the reboot would be good. Hopefully its not worst.
Why am I such a misfit? I am not just a nitwit.
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evolution_500_2
8 years ago
"I was refering to that it is unheard of for a good amount of quality actors making a good quality cgi movie with an okay storyline that is current and by that I mean actually having a role and not just phoning it because i do remember big box office movies have a lot of good actors and all giving career worst performances."
There probably are.
"You know, I'd like to know what you think of the new marvel movies especially apocalypse since i thought it was a pretty good movie i don’t know i got the sense that some of it wasnt close to the comic source."
I never saw "Apocalypse", unfortunately, so I can't really comment on it. Really liked "Deadpool", although a little annoyed by certain changes. The first and second "X-Men" movies were really good. Hated "The Last Stand". "Days of Future's Past" was pretty cool, though I confess to never having read the comic that it was specifically based on. "X-Men Origins"....somewhat better than "Last Stand, but that's not saying much - really, REALLY hated what had been done to Deadpool, though I was glad that Gambit finally got to be featured (why is it so hard to even get him into the "X-Men" movies??). Really liked the first "Iron Man". Didn't like the second. The third.....meh. LOVED "The Avengers" but thought its sequel was okay, if not slightly bloated at the seams. "Dr. Strange" was good - it hasn't really made me a fan of the character, but I liked it. "Marvel: Agents of SHIELD" - was okay, but I became hooked once Ghost Rider made his appearance. "Ghost Rider" and sequel....really cool character, but f#cking awful movies, though the first movie was slightly better in its having some really cool imagery and memorable moments like GR riding down a skyscraper on his bike.
Sorry for the long list! How about you?
"I dont know much about total recall as i said not a big fan but its always been really liked and given countless times. Its not the worst of films. Arnold gets good credit for it and they did the stupid colin remake."
"Total Recall" was based on a short story by Philip K. Dick called "We Can Remember It For You Wholesale".
http://www.english.upenn.edu/~cavitch/pdf-library/Dick_Wholesale.pdf
The movie is somewhat faithful and is intelligent, even gritty, but there are two fundamental problems with it. One is Schwarzenegger - not only can I not buy him as an everyman (I mean, look at the guy! He's practically a Greek god - you could grate cheese off his abs!), but by making the movie into an action comic book vehicle rather than an espionage/psychological paranoia fantasy thriller, it kind of dumbs it down. The other is Verhoeven; Paul Verhoeven is a director who aims his impact fairly and squarely at an almost comically excessive overkill of sex and violence. He piles on violence and excess in his films but it frequently feels like something that is there for its own sake and indifferent to the people present. The sum effect often feels like directorial sadism being randomly applied to innocent people, for no particular reason other than that the director in question is trying to work out some sadistic urges of his own. Verhoeven’s films seem to relish an undisguised sadism and sexual humiliation towards his supporting characters and frequently come shot through with a sense of humour that treats such as a black joke. It only seems ugly here every time there is another splurge of machine-gun fire and half the extras on screen are used to redecorate the walls – and to then realize that one is expected to find it a joke. The incorporation of Arnold Schwarzenegger’s trademark one-liners only serve to make it seem even more grotesque. Nevertheless, the script is essentially an inner psychological drama and Paul Verhoeven’s thudding action brutalities are badly mismatched to this.
"When i said realistic way the military is portrayed i meant its soul"
I don't agree with that at all.
"The nudity. The sex and drinking."
The nudity and sex had no reason to be in there whatsoever. It was just there for the sake of it.
"Yea but you have to see their point of view. If they can save for what could be a potentially expensive suit why wouldn’t you do it?"
There is such a thing as "creative spins", though - you take the premise of something but do something different, thereby making it uniquely your own.
"They probably also thought they can steal a couple of fans not knowing they were going to watch something that wasn’t like the novel."
I can buy that the filmmakers probably wanted to sucker in fans of the novel.
"So though you think they should do what the Japanese( I think) from another country doesn’t mean they’ll do the same based on money."
But they've done the same type of thing with other movies. How many dinosaur movies are out there that have ripped the plot wholesale off from "King Kong", replacing the character and setting with something else? Hell, even "King Kong" was a repackaged and altered version of "The Lost World".
"I don’t even think godzilla has made as much."
It was successful enough to have twenty-thirty sequels, the most in any film franchise, various video games, toys, commercials, etc. Hell, the character was actually recognized as being Japan's cultural/tourism ambassador!
"Maybe for fans like you the reboot would be good. Hopefully its not worst."
Hopefully the reboot/remake will be good.
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