MovieChat Forums > Donnie Brasco (1997) Discussion > Anyone else wish Donnie had been "made"?

Anyone else wish Donnie had been "made"?

posted 10 years ago by joetigersfan
15 replies | jump to latest

We all know how Donnie/Joe was undercover in the Bonanno crime family for five years. When the feds pulled the plug on the operation, Donnie/Joe was very close to being made. I wish he would have been.

Of course it's easy for me to say. I'm not the one who was undercover with the mob, risking my neck on a daily basis. Moreover, I can certainly see WHY the feds pulled Donnie. All those disclaimers said, I wish like hell Donnie would have been made. The mob gives Donnie his pin prick, his saint card, and swears him to the oath of eternal loyalty to the family. The next day, Donnie leaves the mob and goes back to his civilian life. The day after that, thanks to the evidence Donnie turns over, dozens of wiseguys are arrested. It's all over the news, coast to coast, that the tough guys from the mafia MADE an FBI agent! Would that have been hilarious or what? Think of the utter humiliation that would have caused. The mop would never live that one down. The shock waves from that would STILL be felt today, 30 years later.

Anyone else feel the same way? Also, if Donnie had been made, how do you think the sequence of events would have played out?

[–] ruttlesRevenge 10 years ago

No.

[–] cabal24 10 years ago

Joe himself wanted to be made. He didnt want to get pulled out because if he was made he would have been on the inside and would have known everything. He knew a lot but a made guy knows even more. But his case handlers thought he was in too much danger.

Funny thing is this happened again in the 90s. Another undercover FBI guy named garcia was proposed to be made and the FBI pulled him out too for similar reasons.

So yes, it would have been better for him to have gotten made but its hard to risk a guys life to do that especially when you got so much done anyway.

[–] joetigersfan 10 years ago

I understand that it was the Feds choice to pull Joe, but to save my life I CANNOT understand their justification that now-NOW!-it's too "dangerous" all of the sudden. I mean, Donnie was hanging with these guys every day for five years and the feds apparently didn't deem it too dangerous at any point THEN. Why, THIS WEEK, is it all of the sudden now this huge risk to let Joe hang around another week and get made?

[–] cabal24 10 years ago

A couple things you have to understand.

1. Pistone was given a contract. Thats a game changer. That mean you either commit a murder (which the FBI cant let an agent do under any circumstances) or if you dont follow through you are going to get whacked. Also made guys get killed by each other all the time for no real reason at all if the boss gives the OK. Moreso than non made guys.
2. The real case agent wasnt some mormon dick from washington. It was a guy named Jules Bonovalonta (or something similar) who was a great FBI case agent and a good friend of Pistone. He wrote a book called The Good Guys which is a great read if you are into that sort of thing. His concern was the mobs gossip trail. If the targeted guys caught wind of the contract they would certainly go after your FBI agent. And you cant let you guy get killed at all, much less because the mob is like a bunch of old women who cant keep a secret. And once made, the security tightened that much more. SO the protection they were giving him would have evaporated.

Basically the stakes went way up. I agree that they could have kept him in there. But its definitely not an easy call to make IMO.

[–] joetigersfan 10 years ago

Cab,

Good points. I forgot the part that whacking someone is a requirement to get made. As you mention, you obviously could not have let an FBI guy kill someone. Not to mention the fact that being made would have made Joe a target among many wise guys.

Off the point a little bit and perhaps splitting hairs, but could Joe have "faked" a murder? You know, the Feds have the "victim" disappear for a while, take pictures of his "dead" body covered in fake blood,show them to the mob bosses and Joe gets made. Would that have sufficed?

[–] cabal24 10 years ago

Well, yes. That happens a lot. According to The Good Guys, they did try to grab him up for just that purpose. But how long can you hold the dude? A few days? Maybe a few weeks at the most? I suppose he could enter witsec but witness protection has rules and conditions. If I need to secure my guys life, you better convince me this guy wont talk a whole lot to anybody who would listen. Which they all f'n do.

So Im saying I agree they could have risked it and done a ton more damage to la cosa nostra. But ts certainly not an easy call with a kickass guys life at stake.

[–] jacobindc 10 years ago

Him being made would have been the icing on the cake, but the fact that this crew of the Bonanno Family let Brasco get so close to them was embarrassment enough. The real Sonny Black was killed because of it. The Bonanno Family lost their seat on the Commission as well (probably along with their high profile drug trafficking).
The funny thing is this family was embarrassed and alienated by the other families for so long, it was less of a target for the FBI and actually grew stronger because of it. By the mid 90's, it was one of the strongest families in NY.

[–] 10 years ago

[deleted]

[–] michaellou26 10 years ago

with all the stuffs that the feds do and get away with I am surprised they didn't get Joe/Donnie into a made man

[–] !!!deleted!!! (41638798) 10 years ago

I mean, Donnie was hanging with these guys every day for five years and the feds apparently didn't deem it too dangerous at any point THEN. Why, THIS WEEK, is it all of the sudden now this huge risk to let Joe hang around another week and get made?

The film showed us why they wanted to pull him out NOW, even though, yes, he'd been in danger all along.

During the visit to his wife, the two FBI agents told her that the whole undercover game had changed for Joe because, unlike before, he was now in the middle of a big Mafia family fight and factions were killing other factions and now it was a gangland war Joe was in.

As the agent told his wife, Joe is "now in the firing line" because he's been elevated upward with Sonny Black and now is in the sights of other Mafia factions wanting to take down Sonny Black's crew.

The FBI suddenly saw their guy they'd invested 5-6 years in and who would be the Number One Star Witness in any trials they got from indictments Joe had provided information for being killed in some crazy Mafia shoot out.

They pulled Joe in order to keep him alive as the valuable witness they needed--now that they had enough for 200 indictments, just from Joe's undercover work.

So they pulled him and pulled the plug on the Don Brasco op.

[–] cabal24 10 years ago

I mean, Donnie was hanging with these guys every day for five years and the feds apparently didn't deem it too dangerous at any point THEN. Why, THIS WEEK, is it all of the sudden now this huge risk to let Joe hang around another week and get made?

It was the contract that changed things. Once that happened (as paradesend said) he was in the firing line. It was partly how valuable Joe was but it was also he was their friend and if you can help it, you probably want to keep your friend from getting murdered.

[–] !!!deleted!!! (41638798) 10 years ago

Exactly--it also was a contract that was being assigned to Donnie that made them pull him out.

He was coming periously close to "Being made" and that also would have compromised their court case.

For many reasons, the time had come.

And if that wasn't enough, it probably was apparent to his handlers that he was "becoming" Donnie Brasco a little too much, too.

[–] cabal24 10 years ago

And if that wasn't enough, it probably was apparent to his handlers that he was "becoming" Donnie Brasco a little too much, too.

Nah. I agree with everything else you said. But this aint reality. In reality. Pistone never "was like them". He was a trooper plain and simple. All else was drama for a movie. This is according to his book, other books and testimony. Am I naive? Maybe though most would never call me that. But thats what I think.

[–] !!!deleted!!! (41638798) 10 years ago

Yes, of course. I was just speaking only in context of the film, not the real Pistone.

What made me think that was the way Joe was behaving in the therapist's office when he was in there with his wife. He was totally in character, doing "dees" and "dems" and "dos" and fughgettaboutit act--because it was so deeply ingrained.

He didn't dare turn it off. Remember when his wife said oh my god look at him? I married a college man! We can presume that he was just a regular bloke before taking on that persona full time, educated and speaking perhaps with a New Jersey accent but certainly not acting like a rough gangster all the time.

That is why I thought (in the film's context" that Donnie was just getting way too far in -- the way he resisted being pulled out was another clue. He was totally loyal to Lefty by then and just couldn't handle having him killed because he vouched for him.

Yet going in at the beginning, that was going to be the plan--and nobody was going to be worried about Lefty. He was going to be arrested or something.

It showed Donnie's loyalties shifting in a kind of mental mini-breakdown thing after all the stress--he didn't know which end was up by the time they pulled him.

[–] movieman_stl 9 years ago

I finished the book Donnie Brasco recently and Pistone understood though he would have humiliated the Mafia in every way possible, he wouldn't be able to play dumb anymore if he wanted to save a life or prevent a heist.