MovieChat Forums > Air Force One (1997) Discussion > Who was more evil? Ivan Korshunov or the...

Who was more evil? Ivan Korshunov or the Joker from the Dark Knight?


Who was more evil? Korshunov or the Joker

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I really am tired of this. Whenever I visit any hit action movie's Message Board, there has to be at least one thread started by someone who compares that movie to one of Nolan's Batman movies. I wouldn't be surprised if someone posted in "Schindler's List" Message Board asking, "Who was more evil? Amon Goeth or the Joker from Dark Knight?"

Some folks are die-hard fans of Nolan's Batman movies, I get it and that's cool with me but do they have to compare every movie with them? Nolan's Batman movies aren't some sort of Hollywood benchmark against which all movies must be compared.

Just for a second, imagine if someone had posted this exact thread that you have started, in the "Dark Knight" Message Board. How ridiculous would it appear?

Mr McGee, don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry!

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Oh really? I haven't seen any of those threads apart from here so maybe you would like to provide links to back up your statement there.


We will destroy Gotham.....Let the Games begin!

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Oh really?

Yeah, really! Hard to imagine, isn't it?

I haven't seen any of those threads apart from here ...

Visit the Message Board of any of the following movies and you will see what I mean:

Man of Steel
Iron Man movies (especially IM3)
Inception
Skyfall
Avengers
Superman (original one)
After Earth
Prometheus

There were many more but it seems that IMDB has deleted many of the old posts. I think there is some new policy where messages older than 1 or 2 years are deleted.

so maybe you would like to provide links to back up your statement there.

I didn't know that one was required to provide proof to back up each and every statement made here on IMDB boards. Or does that rule apply only to people who have something critical to say about Nolan's Batman movies?

Judging by your signature, you are also a fan of the Nolan Batman movies, which, as I said before, is cool with me. But can you honestly tell me that there is even a slight resemblance between the characters of Ivan Korshunov and the Joker? How can anybody (who is not a die-hard fan of Nolan's Batman movies) make that connection? Is there even a hint of logic in comparing these two characters?

Mr McGee, don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry!

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I checked a few of those boards and hardly found any of what you are talking about i think you are exaggerating a bit there.

The OP didn't seem like a troll or a fanboy to me really. Maybe either a fan of both movies or a fan of Gary Oldman in both movies who thought they both had an evil antagonist and wanted peoples opinion on who was the most despicable? Maybe you should check his post history before jumping all over his post with the "oh i'm so sick of this" kind of attitude.

Don't like it? Don't read it, simple as.

What has the fact that i like the Dark Knight got to do with this? I also love Kubrick, Tarantino, Scorsese and quite a few others along with Mr Nolan. I could just as easily jump all over your avatar and say "you must be a Burton fan and hate anything to do with TDK blah blah blah".

I'm a fan of Burton as well for what it's worth.


We will destroy Gotham.....Let the Games begin!

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I checked a few of those boards and hardly found any of what you are talking about i think you are exaggerating a bit there.

Really? I just quickly glanced over those boards and found the following threads:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1300854/board/nest/220773057
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1815862/board/thread/221385871
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0848228/board/thread/222790694?p=1
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2975590/board/nest/219103851
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2975590/board/nest/219045310
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2975590/board/nest/218896972
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0770828/board/nest/218815617
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0770828/board/nest/218813956
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1300854/board/thread/22253445
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0773262/board/thread/219500942
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1074638/board/nest/217577519
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0770828/board/thread/222862121?d=222863322 #222863322
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0770828/board/thread/220992854?d=221000134 #221000134
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0770828/board/thread/223063049?d=223063049 #223063049
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0770828/board/thread/219863886?d=219865633 #219865633
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0770828/board/nest/223285486
There are still A LOT more but I got tired of copying and pasting. And this despite the fact that IMDB has deleted posts which are older than a year. There were still many more such posts before that. Still think that I'm exaggerating? Maybe you are trying too hard to defend the OP.

The OP didn't seem like a troll or a fanboy to me really.

I never accused him of being either. Do you see either of those words in my reply to him?

Maybe either a fan of both movies or a fan of Gary Oldman in both movies who thought they both had an evil antagonist and wanted peoples opinion on who was the most despicable?

Nice try but no cigar. Again you are trying too hard to defend the OP albeit unsuccessfully. Just because someone is fan of two movies does not mean that they can post unrelated posts about one movie on another's board. I like "Jaws" and "Snow White and the 7 Dwarfs" but you don't see me making such posts. Even if the OP is a fan of Gary Oldman his post still makes no sense. If he really had a valid reason for comparing the two characters, he should have stated that in his post.

Don't like it? Don't read it, simple as.

I could give that same advise to you. If you don't like my posts, don't read them.

What has the fact that i like the Dark Knight got to do with this?

Seriously? The fact that you like TDK has nothing to do with the fact that you are defending another fan of TDK and his post about TDK on another movie's board? It doesn't get more obvious than that my friend. And why do you automatically assume that because I (correctly) pointed out that you like TDK, it means that you cannot like any other movies or other directors? You are getting overly defensive for apparently no reason. It's not like I'm calling you a Nolanite or anything.

I could just as easily jump all over your avatar and say "you must be a Burton fan and hate anything to do with TDK blah blah blah".

LOL! For a fan of Burton and Nolan, you sure don't know a lot about Batman, do you? What has my avatar got anything to do with Burton? Just FYI, my avatar is a pic of Catwoman from the early DC Comics and not even remotely close to Burton's Catwoman.

I'm a fan of Burton as well for what it's worth.

Good for you! I have nothing against you or the OP for being fans of Nolan. Nothing wrong with that, as I already mentioned twice in replies. There are Message Boards for BB, TDK, TDKR, Chirs Nolan, heath Ledger, Christian Bale etc. where fans like yourself and the OP and discuss to your heart's content. But posting about them on another movie's board on totally unrelated topics is not cool. I'm not a big fan of either Nolan or Burton which is why I don't go to the above boards to make random posts. I mostly stick to the boards of the movies I like. But even then, fans like the OP start such irrelevant threads on those boards.


Mr McGee, don't make me angry. You wouldn't like me when I'm angry!

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The Joker was crap in DK. All he did was destruction. Korshunov was a great villain.

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The Joker would kill anyone and not show any remorse. He would probably be laughing maniacally while standing over the dead body. He was the living embodiment of psychotic. And as such, is he truly evil because of his insanity?

Korshunov was also a ruthless killer. He was cold, calculating, and deliberate. He would kill anyone if it served his purpose. He would have blown the President's daughter's head off in front of her mother and father to get what he wants. He doesn't show much remorse either. After executing Jack Dogherty, Korshunov makes a glib remark about Dogherty being an excellent negotiator.

It's hard to say who is more evil. I suppose it comes down to motivations. Korshunov is motivated by patriotism. He wants Russia to be one great nation again, and he's willing to go to extremes to see that that happens. The Joker has more self-interests like greed or a vendetta against Batman, etc. So despite his insanity, I would say the Joker is more evil because he kills for selfish reasons and I suspect he finds killing more pleasurable than Korshunov does.

As an aside, it seems weird trying to justify murder. Murder is murder.

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Totally agree with you. Couldn't agree with you more. Because at least Korshunov had a motivation. Joker was killing for his own pleasure. So I totally agree with you on that. I think that Korshunov wanted what he felt was for the best interest of his country, but the methods that he used were evil.

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The Joker. Korshunov had a cause. He was a zealous patriot who could justify anything with his love for his country.

The Joker killed people and wreaked destruction because he felt like it.

Both are bad people, but at least Korshunov has a motivation. In his mind, he is a patriot fighting for his country.



my movie review website: http://www.jestersreviews.com

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Totally agree with you. Korshunov had a motivation whereas the Joker was killing people just for his own amusement. The Joker was far worse. I'm glad that we agree on that.

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