Who did Buffy love more, Spike or Angel?

the comics are not cannon nor will it ever be. buffy and angel was not pure and innocent because of the events that happened during their romance. that is not an opinion, it is fact. you cannot compare the angel and buffy thing to willow and xander. another term of pure and innocent is called puppy love which is something buffy and angel did not have. Joyce did not see the love as pure and innocent, that was why she wanted angel to end it. seriously how many parents do that for their kids in a pure and innocent romance? parents only tend to step in when their kids are caught in a very serious, real and complicated relationships not a pure and innocent relationship.

Joss writes the comics as a continuation of the show so they are cannon. It is what the creator of the show says happened after the show. That would be like saying the prequels to Star Wars which was written by the same creator are not cannon. It's what the creator says happened. The fact that I hate them does not mean they are not cannon. The fact that you hate that Buffy ends up with Spike doesn't change that that is in fact what happens.

Saying that what Angel and Buffy had was not pure innocent love is in fact your opinion, not fact. You can use examples to back up your opinion, but that doesn't make it fact. You can't prove it. The fact is I have read many posts on this site and youtube where people believe just that. People don't tend to argue with proven fact. How many people argue with 2 and 2 is four. I say it was based on pure innocent love because while Buffy may be a lot more mature than most people her age because she has had to grow up fast because she is the slayer when she fell in love with Angel in a romantic sense she was young and innocent . The fact that complications happened later doesn't change the fact that the foundation of their love was built on something pure and innocent. and puppy love is not another name for pure and innocent. Puppy love is young kids who have a crush and is often used refer to kids who aren't even teenagers yet.

As far as Joyce asking Angel to end it,you ask the question seriously how many parents do that for their kids in pure and innocent love, I ask you, seriously have you seen many teen shows? That is a very common theme in shows when parents don't want their children to throw away their future because of young love. Teens and parents being in conflict over that first serious relationship happens in almost every teen show and in almost every soap opera featuring young love.

Buffy never let Angel go because it was not like she fell out of love with him or they grew apart. they are not together because of circumstances. circumstances does not change the way people feel about each other. the proof is in chosen...she tells angel that she thinks of a future with him and not with spike. the proof is also in selfless . buffy as an adult said she would have given up everything to be with him[[/b]. also, you cant compare buffy's love for dawn, angel or her mother. the loves are equal but different. she would do anything for those 3 and has put her life on the line countless times to save them

It's true that Buffy did not let go of Angel because she fell out of love with him. It was circumstances but in their years apart they became very different people. And I think you best go back and watch that conversation in Chosen again because Buffy never once uses the words she thinks about a future with Angel and not Spike. Buffy tells Angel that Spike is in her heart, but no she doesn't see fat grandchildren in the offering with Spike which implies she has thought about what a future with Spike would look like. She never even outright tells Angel that she pictures what a future with him would be like, she simply said sometimes she does think about who it might be with, she never even specifically says she thinks that it might be with him. She than tells him they may never be together. I personally think when she told Angel sometimes she does think about who it might be with she is just trying to give him a glimmer of hope because in a way she does still love him and doesn't want hurt him. The fact is when a girl tells you that it will be a long time before she could ever be with you, and it may not be ever, she most likely means never. I've said something similar to that to a guy once and I had no intention of ever being with him again. I was just trying to soften the blow. A girl saying something like that is about equal to a guy saying he will call you after he sleeps with you. Chances are he has no intention of ever calling. The fact that you admit the writers in season 7 were in favor of Spuffy should tell you right there you are reading this scene wrong. They simply wanted to throw a bone to the Bangel fans. Not to mention the fact that she sends Angel away and goes home to Spike.

And I realize the kind of love Buffy had for Dawn is totally different I was just pointing out that Buffy was putting extra emphasis on what she felt for Angel to make her point to Xander that she did understand how he felt about the possibility that they may have to kill Anya. Obviously she didn't love Angel more than she would ever love anybody because there was already someone she loved as much though in a very different way. Even when she said she loved him that way she used love in the past tense, and I don't remember from season 5 on there ever being a scene where Buffy told Angel she stills love him and would give up anything to be with him and I have watched all episodes several time.

And as far as you saying that circumstances being the only reason they are apart now, I always thought if they loved each other enough they would have found a way to overcome circumstances. Angel just left her, he didn't even try, yet in the season 3 finale of Angel he was willing to try and find away to be with Cordy. The fact is if love isn't stronger than the circumstances than it's not meant to be.

whenever any count down or list ranks any tv romance, angel and buffy is always on the list not spike and buffy. if you ask anybody or any yv critic to rank the buffy seasons, season 2 and 3 are always in the top 3 rankings. season 6 and 7 are usually considered the worst seasons. if you look at most lists of best buffy episodes they are mostly the buffy and angel centric episode. so it is not opinion, it is fact. the fact lies in the fact that buffy and angel were a better written and disciplined couple. spuffy became fan fiction by season 7 with spike staring as a mary sue character because the writers were in love with with him and were willing to screw other characters ( giles, willow and dawn) to make Spike look good. Spike ended up ruining the show.

Could you please give me a an example of what count downs you are watching because I've seen plenty of lists where Buffy and Spike have made the cut. I've also known lots of people who liked the seasons better after Angel left so and have read where lots of people liked the show better after Angel left so you and I are obviously not asking the same people and to be honest with you I don't know what a vv critic is.

Honestly do people still date their attempted raper? is it realistic to date a person that made a sex robot for you.how realistic do you think it is to date a person that hides behind your house and uses their super ear to listen to you have sex with their boyfriend. how realistic is threatening to tell your friends about your sex lives. how realistic is domestic abuse turning to real love?

This is one thing I will give you as a valid point as to why Buffy wouldn't be with Spike, but it bothers me how Bangel fans are always so willing to bring up how Spike did this when he didn't have a soul, but are so willing to overlook what Angel did to her when he didn't have a soul. Angel didn't want to just attack her physically, he wanted her to suffer, and the attack he waged against her mind and emotions was just as brutal, in fact it was worse because it wasn't one solitary incident. It was over and over. Furthermore why do Bangel fans always attack Spike for the attempted rape, but are so willing to overlook how Buffy treated him. She never missed a chance to verbally abuse him and she beat the crap out of him and left him in ally to die. How is that any better than rape? There is absolutely no excuse for rape, but honestly I understand how Spike was driven to his breaking point. And the fact is the Spike in season 7, the Spike I believe Buffy fell in love with, was a completely different person. She said herself she saw him change. He was willing to get his soul for her which is something Angel certainly wouldn't have done. If you ask me Angel hating have his soul. That curse really was just that a curse.

See Angel and Buffy romances works well in realism even after everything angelus did to buffy because the show made it clear of the angel/angelus dynamic and how they were not the same thanks to the soul rule. The soul aspect is also the ultimate failure for spike and buffy , showing how poorly written the couple were, because the writers had to change and ignore a lot of things to suit spike as a character. angel souled/unsouled had a superior dynamic , writing and an amazing social commentary of what makes us humans and what makes us love.

I disagree there were other vampires in both Buffy and Angel that had genuine affection even without a soul. Spike was willing to do just about anything for Dru in season 2 before he had a soul so even then when they were showing Angel without a soul it showed Spike being capable of sacrifice and caring for someone else. The only thing the Angel/Angelus dynamic proves is how much more of a bastard Angel was without a soul than Spike was. Angel is in fact known in the buffyverse for being way more of a bastard than other vampires. Most vampires just like the kill, Angel like to torture people and play mind games. He use to pose his victims for the remaining family to come home and find for God's sake. How sick is that? The fact is he was kind of a bastard even when he was human.

Please watch rihanna's 20/20s interview after chris brown assaulted her. rihanna said when she looked at chris, she felt his soul was gone. according to rihanna, there was no 'soul in his eyes' and he was different from the guy that said he loved her. buffy said the same thing in innocence and passion. she said angel was different and was not the same guy she had fallen in love with. buffy also said angel's entire demeanour was different when she was him after their night of passion. both buffy (fictional )and rihanna (real person) make us understand the importance of a soul and how they affect our humanity including what happens when it is gone. with spike not so much, the writers had to make spike kind of good without a soul because they could not kill him off.

I don't need to watch any interview about rape, because honestly I've been there, and that's enough said about that. The fact is I have already said I don't think Buffy fell in love with Spike until after he had his soul and why is it you are so willing to believe Buffy could still love Angel after he got his soul back in spite of what he did when he didn't have his soul, but you can't believe Buffy could love Spike after he got his soul.

spike went to get a soul for buffy, so why didn't he get one for drusilla or his dying mother? you see in the standard myth, vampires are not meant to go and look for souls, they are not meant to be capable of that act. we see that with darla, the master, vampire willow, drusilla and angelus. Angelus soul was a punishment for his crimes and to make him fell remorse for the graves he has filled. this is another reason why angel getting and loosing his soul carried more weight and raised the stakes. spike looking for a soul was the perfect way to seal off his mary sueness and since spike is the same with or without soul , him getting a soul did not carry any weight for him. the writers wanted to give spike a soul to push the spuufy nonsense but they failed miserably in understanding why angel having a soul was so important in the first place.


Spike didn't go to get his soul for Drusilla because she neither required it of him nor would she have wanted him to have one. He still had a soul when his mother was dying expect for one brief moment after she was first turned and she never required him to have a soul either. The fact that vampires are not meant to go and look for a soul, they are not meant to be capable of that act was the very thing the show was conveying proved Spike's love for Buffy. Spike's love for Buffy was stronger than the circumstances. Angels' was not. I don't think the writer's failed miserable in understanding why Angel had a soul. I think you don't understand. It was a curse. And you keep talking like it is completely different writers in the later seasons. Joss was the main writer in all the seasons.

Spike is the guy that fought of his soul but he tells principal wood to get over his mother death and still wears her jacket in front of him with no remorse. Angel had a soul forced on him but he tries to apologise to giles for killing his girlfriend and showed remorse for anyone not named buffy. spike with a soul cannot understand that is is not appropriate to were the jacket in front of the person whose mother killed? tell me, why wasn't angel going around with any of jenny's calender possessions after he got a soul.

Spike stopped wearing that jacket for a long time after he got his soul. It was Buffy pushing him to be more like he was that made him put it back on. He was simply trying to remember who he used to be. And when he first starting wearing it he had no idea Principal Wood was the son of a slayer. He didn't find out until after principal Wood tried to kill him. Spike showed him mercy because he did have a soul but I guess he just didn't care too much about the feelings of a man who still wished him dead.

angel was humble and remorseful when he got his soul back and did not use the excuse that vampires killing, toying and torturing people was part of the game as spike did....because you see the writers that wrote angel's soul story understood how a soul should work. the writers for spike never understood how a soul was meant to work.

That actually just means Angel was more selfish. He was always brooding and going around feeling sorry for himself like he was the victim. Spike felt guilty but realized it wasn't about him. Spike even said he didn't enjoy the kill like he use to,but Angel on the other hand said in an episode of Angel when he was having dreams about killings he did long ago he enjoyed the dreams. He said that thrill was still very much in him. But yeah, Spike is the worse one just because you didn't seem him brooding or feeling sorry for himself. As for the writers you are again acting like it was totally different writing. Joss was still the main writer, and he has said himself he wanted Buffy to end up with Spike. So I guess the creator of the show doesn't understand it as well as you do.


I call angel and buffy the superior couple because it was a well written and had a consistent story that added a lot of depth and real life lessons. I call spike and buffy a bad couple because it was mostly poorly written, cliche and had a lot of conveniences that suited the bad boy fan fiction trope.

I think Angel and Buffy were well written, I also thing the development of the Buffy/Spike relationship in season 7 was extremely well written and again it was the same main writer. I don't think the writing was all that different. I think it was just less enjoyable to you because you didn't like Buffy and Spike, and you liked Angel and Buffy. You simply can't accept Buffy with anyone but Angel so any story where she might truly love someone else is horrible to you.

She loved Xena the most!!!


Or maybe Pru?

That'll put marzipan in your pie plate, bingo!