MovieChat Forums > Swingers (1997) Discussion > Was Trent not suppose to be a good frien...

Was Trent not suppose to be a good friend?

posted 13 years ago by brandon1866
20 replies | jump to latest

I don't get the point of the last scene, to me it tries to show/imply that Trent isn't a good friend. Because Mike has finally gotten over his ex, the whole movie has built up to this, it's a big deal for him, and Trent toally blows him off because he thinks some girl is flirting with him. Irony is that she isn't, Trent gets embarrassed and tries to get back onto topic with what Mike was saying but he can't really remember the details "so you called her back, no, you didn't call her back.. right?" showing that he wasn't really paying attention.

Now the purpose of this scene to me, says that Trent is not a good friend. Now the issue I have is that kind of negates Trent's character up until that point, becuase throughout the movie, you can tell that Trent is a good friend and genuinely cares for his friend Mike. And there's lots of examples of this, like when Trent is making out with that girl in the trailer, and he stops so he can check on Mike to make sure he's doing well too. The scene in which Trent angrily yells at Sue, after Sue insulted Mike, and of course the last scene where Mike is dancing with Heather Graham, you can see Trent is genuinely happy that he's doing well.

So after all that, to show a scene where Trent suddenly looks like a superficial character that doesn't care about the life of his friend because he thinks some ugly chick is flirting with him, doesn't sit well with me. Trent came across to me as the kind of guy who would ultimately choose his mates over a girl, but that last scene totally goes in the other direction.

It is a great scene though, and I think it was sought of an important one to happen to Trent, to show that even he can look like an idiot, but not in that context.

What are your thoughts on it? Interestingly, I just read this in the trivia section:

"The scene in which Trent angrily yells at Sue, after Sue insulted Mike, was written specifically at Vince Vaughn's request. Vaughn wanted to show that beneath Trent's bravado and swagger, he truly cared for Mike as a friend."

[–] bob_deniro 13 years ago

I'm not sure that the last scene implied that Trent wasn't a good friend to Mike - he just became distracted for a moment by the woman waving and making faces at him and then was clearly embarassed when the woman turns out not to be flirting with him at all - just a funny scene.

For the most part Trent is the confident "player type" character who seems to have all the answers & all the dating rules down but was clearly out to just have fun and enjoy "the scene". By the end of the film Mike realises that even though Trent is a great friend and did help him through to a point - he had to find his own way which didn't necessarily adhere to Trent's rules on women & dating in LA.

I think Trent still cared about Mike and his situation but the final scene shows that they are both of a different nature.

[–] ALTheGreatS 13 years ago

I came here post something similar. I thought Trent seemed somewhat resentful to Mike when they were in the diner. Which was why he stormed out the way he did in the diner scene

"Wise man say forgiveness is divine, but never pay full price for late pizza."

[–] aske0031 13 years ago

I think Trent seemed a little uncomfortable with the idea that Mike might not need him anymore. A lot of (but not all) people like Trent are actually very insecure

[–] mtsnyda 13 years ago

I really don't think it has to do with Trent being a poor friend. Trent was definitely a good friend throughout the entire film and even still in this scene. This scene ultimately has to do with Trent's character being somewhat self-involved. Mike got a lot out of Trent, especially in regards to his help with the females, and this scene shows him how even Trent isn't the quintessential ladies man he had admired throughout the entire film. Basically, a sense of humility. But to suggest he's not a good friend would be totally disregarding their growth of friendship and camaraderie throughout the film as a whole.

--
www.searchforcomo.com

[–] jslavik 13 years ago

Trent was definitely a good friend. He had the best intentions for Mike. I think the only problem was, he was trying to get Mike to act like him (be a player), and that just wasn't Mike. At the end, maybe Trent feels a little like he's not needed.

The funny thing with the end is, the whole movie, Trent looks like the smooth player, and Mike's out of control. In the diner however, the roles become reversed. Mike's seemingly got his situation in order, and Trent gets embarrassed with the mother and baby... haha.

[–] 13 years ago

[deleted]

[–] ob-6 12 years ago

Trent was and is a very good friend.

I think the point of the last scene is to show that Mike has now grown up into being his own man. He wants love and a deep relationship instead of idolizing Trent and his shallow ways like he did for most of the movie. Trent may be shallow, but he's still a good friend. But now Mike has grown up and they are looking for different things from women.

I think the last scene could have been done a little bit better. It was inserted at the last minute, because Liman felt (rightly) that the scene in the apartment on the phone was not a good ending place. The final scene ended up being a little confusing for some people because Mike suddenly acts annoyed. Not sure how it should have been done.. the baby scene was great, I just think Mike's scowl might not have been the way to end it.

[–] shani-3 10 years ago

I think the last scene could have been done a little bit better. It was inserted at the last minute, because Liman felt (rightly) that the scene in the apartment on the phone was not a good ending place. The final scene ended up being a little confusing for some people because Mike suddenly acts annoyed. Not sure how it should have been done.. the baby scene was great, I just think Mike's scowl might not have been the way to end it.

The ending scene was perfect. Well, almost--Mike never really finished his thought as to what hit him ("It's so simple..."). But then again, maybe he thought expressing his feelings to Trent would be a waste of time. Mike wasn't annoyed, but rather amused and a tiny bit pleased to see that Trent wasn't always as "money" as he thought he was.

Yeah, they're dead; they're--all messed up!

[–] crooky-3 10 years ago

It's a role reversal. Mike for once is the one sitting confident and Trent for once is the one with the tail between his legs. It wasn't meant to be anything more than that I think, other than maybe continuing to drive the point home that Trent is basically constantly in the game and looking for his next score, to the point where it defines him.

[–] Paynebyname 9 years ago

I read the scene differently and it's one that really frustrates me about the film.

Trent has been the one pushing to get Mike out of his shell, driving him to Vegas where he managed to blow the hook up and constantly pushing him to restore his confidence.

Indeed it is Trent encouraging Mikey to come out, that leads to him meeting Lorraine. So it is Trent's living life to the full and meeting girls, that has enabled Mike to be in a position to hook up with Lorraine.

I then feel that the ending tries to ridicule Trent for his womanising ways because Mikey can now look down his nose at his antics because he has found someone.

It smacks of an arrogance that once you find someone you suddenly don't need the silly games of chasing girls and you are suddenly above all of the immaturity.

No acknowledgement that having someone like Trent in your corner helps your cause, just a withering contempt that you don't need that silliness anymore because you've found someone special.

Small moves Ellie, small moves

[–] moviefool09 9 years ago

I think Trent did support Mike and was a good friend. But Trent was also arrogant and self-involved as well and more than a little condescending towards Mike during the film. Mike was kind of viewed as the "little pet" he had to nurture, when all along, maybe he should have been paying attention to himself.

Mike was dealing with a tough breakup and who here hasn't been through that? He would, of course, eventually get over it but Trent will always be a bit of an *ss. Nothing horrible about Trent but he isn't the "gem" he thinks he is. He's essentially a good guy, a charmer, but someone who thinks way too much of himself. That's what the last scene showed, in a nutshell.

"The future is tape, videotape, and NOT film?"

[–] Techto (1307) a year ago

But for his friends, and Trent especially, Mike would likely have sunk into depression and would have taken even longer to move on from his past relationship.

[–] Manton29 9 years ago

I think a very important aspect of the dynamic is missing in this discussion:

Trent loves Mike.

It upsets him that he may no longer need him.

I'm not saying there is a homosexual urge there.

But strong feelings.

Might return and edit to add, but all you perceptive folks must feel me on this?

If to stand pat means to resist evil then, yes, neighbour, we wish to stand pat.

[–] moviefool09 9 years ago

I think a very important aspect of the dynamic is missing in this discussion:
Trent loves Mike.
It upsets him that he may no longer need him.

I think this is a valid point. Trent has always felt most comfortable in the supporter/mentor role to Mike. Even the "you're money, baby" lines are Trent as a borderline father figure, encouraging Mike to succeed. There's real love there, as you said.

At the end of the film, Trent's role as a loving nurturer is kind of over and he probably feels unbalanced.

"The future is tape, videotape, and NOT film?"

[–] Manton29 9 years ago

Hey moviefool, thanks for the response.

Trent was also an actor, and probably a pretty sensitive guy underneath, with his own emotional turmoil and ups and downs going on in parallel to Mike's, only now there's no big emotional drama external to his own dramas that he can distract himself attending to. Somehow I felt they'd move forward as good buddies, with traces of the old dynamic remaining, or maybe the mentor / student thing would just come up from time to time, but there would be a better power balance thenceforth, and Mike would get the upper hand more frequently in exchanges in which they differed in approach/thinking. Lively banter and friendly jousting, still with a plenty of bears and money and such.

In any case, a very rich, nuanced script brought to life by actors who invested deeply in their characters, evinced by such discussions as the present one all these years down the line. As a film maker myself, it's very heartening to know Swingers was a passion project that grew from humble beginnings and saw the light of day only through the energy and tenacity of a relatively inexperienced team.

Cheers,

Manton

If to stand pat means to resist evil then, yes, neighbour, we wish to stand pat.

[–] moviefool09 9 years ago

Manton....Good luck with the film-making! The important thing is not to be discouraged by rejection, cause there's tons of it. For example, "The Walking Dead" was originally shopped to a lot of prime networks like HBO, etc and they all turned it down! Never doubt your dream!

I agree with your thoughts on how these characters would have turned out. I know sequels are rarely as engaging as the original but I've always wanted to see another film with these characters.

I think there's an insecurity within Trent that he masks to a certain extent by helping others, like Mike (his pet project). It may also be a fear to commit, since he doesn't seem to be interested in any lasting romantic relationships, only the hook-ups. Then again, Trent is very young still and probably immature. Mike is actually the mature one, despite his very long suffering following his breakup. Trent sees this as a weakness within Mike but it actually shows Mike as more evolved because he has deep feelings, feelings that Trent doesn't. Trent might actually be a bit jealous of Mike for this. He's surely jealous of him in the end, mocking him at the diner after Mike meets a new girl.

"The future is tape, videotape, and NOT film?"

[–] Manton29 9 years ago

Thanks for the encouragement, Moviefool - yeah, discouragement is a big obstacle but I doubt it'll stop me from moving forward with film... though it seems to be a slllloooooowwww journey! If positive feedback was my main motivation I would have given up long ago, ha ha.

As for your further observations on Swingers - yeah, nothing to take issue with there, and particularily agree with the maturity aspect - maturity means facing who you are and relating for that place. Trent is busy playing the game and as an actor that might be the smart move at that stage in his journey. Never spent time in LA, but from what I've heard about the place I get the impression that maturity is not the most important attribute when establishing oneself there as an actor! Again, all your observations are testament to the quality of the writing and the investment of the cast. A sequel WOULD have been great... Now? I think it's too late and it would be like the Star Wars prequels was to the original fans!

Cheers,

Manton

If to stand pat means to resist evil then, yes, neighbour, we wish to stand pat.

[–] moviefool09 9 years ago

Good thoughts, all. Hope your film projects turn out well.

Yeah, regarding a "Swingers" sequel, sadly, I think that ship has sailed. The guys are too old now and I'm not really sure we'd want to see Mike and Trent in their mid 40's...lol. Well, come to think of it, it might be interesting to see how they evolved. My guess? Mike is married...while Trent is still an actor and playing the field.

Have spent a fair amount of time in LA. It is indeed a very superficial place and it's difficult to find someone genuine. Indeed, not a ton of maturity there. And it really doesn't matter how old you are.

"The future is tape, videotape, and NOT film?"

[–] tmanqz 9 years ago

Trent's a good friend.
I found the scene very funny, exposing Trent's false bravado.
Mike took pleasure in Trent's embarrassment...
It showed the transformation mike is now confident in himself again...

[–] 9 years ago

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