MovieChat Forums > Sleepers (1996) Discussion > Could "Fat Mancho" have been responsible...

Could "Fat Mancho" have been responsible too?


It's been a while since I've seen "Sleepers" but I just thought about this particular theory/plot hole in the movie recently. And that theory relates to the character "Fat Mancho." I'm starting to believe that he(along with Nokes, Ferguson, Styler,and Addison)may have also been responsible for both John and Tommy turning the way they did as adults. Because if anybody remembers after the scene that had the boys playing baseball on the street, Michael lets that other kid win the game in order to please the legless crippled girl who was that other boy's sister be happy for her brother win even if she was antagonizing him during that game. Of course, Fat Mancho's response to Shakes, and the other three boys(Michael, John, and Tommy) was that they were too soft in order to please that girl. But before John and Tommy kill Nokes in that restaurant and after they tell him who they are, Nokes tells both of them which also include Shakes and Michael that he along with Ferguson, Styler, and Addison tried to "make them tough" through their abuse(physical, verbal and sexual)because of all four of the boys being scared when they first entered Wilkinson. But later on in the movie, when John and Tommy's trial for killing Nokes is coming up and Shakes and Michael are trying to infiltrate the other three guards, Fat Mancho tells Shakes that both John and Tommy are bad guys now and they'll never be the same as they were as kids. Well, it seems that he wanted the boys to be tough but doesn't realize that what he said about them at that time would backfire on him later on in the future. Of course, the boys never nor did they want to talk about the abuse that they suffered at Wilkinson's once they were released. Is this theory agreeable or not?

reply

Your saying Fat Mancho paid those guards to rape the kids so they would be tough?

Thats one of the most absurd things I have ever heard on an IMDB message board haha

reply

Your saying Fat Mancho paid those guards to rape the kids so they would be tough?
No, I think the OP was saying that part of the reason John and Tommy turned out the way they did was because they took Fat Mancho's advice about being tough to heart.

However, it is also true that what he meant to say and what he wanted for them and what Nokes was saying were two different things.

reply

No Fat Man was simply saying (and using the wrong example) you've got to make sure people don't take advantage of you, it's this basically harmless girl today but it's someone else tomorrow. The Book explains a lot of this kind of thing much better as a book can and a film cannot.
Nokes was simply thinking of any excuse - maybe to himself as much as to them despite the threat to his life.

reply

I think you're way off the mark here. Fat Moncho's version of tough and Noke's suggestion were two completely different things. One was looking out for their good the other was spouting desperate nonsense pleading with two armed men with an obvious grudge.

There's a moral to this story Del Boy but for the life of me I can't find it!

reply