Agreed.....the film looks amazing....but the fight scenes (surely the main 'draw' to a movie like this) suck.
Without being too catty, most of Van Damme's movie fight scenes are dull. but they are especially miserable here (very flat, forced and mechanical)
Beyond his flashy roundhouse kicks, his Martial Arts are pretty poor....he has little, (if any) basic hand-to-hand skills (exemplified in his bizarre habit of constantly flexing his muscles after every punch for around 5-10 seconds, whilst making 'Bruce Lee-like' battle cries) and the added slo-mo just buries it further.
Thankfuly, better action directors came along (like Tsui Hark or Ringo Lam) and had the decency to add a bit of well-needed 'oomph' to his (already limited) repetoire.
BTW, I like a lot of Van Damme's stuff (although I'm baffled as to why people idolize shite like 'Bloodsport') Perhaps Van Damme was too busy with his (alleged) 'directorial' duties on the set, to bother giving anything substantial 'choreography-wise'?
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PrimeMinisterX (8767)
4 years ago
Ha ha, Van Damme definitely has some eccentricities in his fighting style, but I know that he legitimately competed in point karate and I've also seen some evidence that he competed in kickboxing. (If I remember correctly someone found a quote in an old magazine where one of his opponents talked about fighting him.)
I loved Bloodsport and Kickboxer growing up, so I won't complain there, but I will agree that the fights in those films certainly feel more staged than the fight scenes we get in action movies today.
Did you ever see the finale of No Retreat, No Surrender? You'll probably still think it looks mechanical in comparison to today's stuff, but there's little slow-mo and I think overall it's pretty cool fight choreography:
https://youtu.be/pjadGZEGxAI?t=99
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seagal72 (1968)
4 years ago
I liked 'both 'No Retreat No Surrender' and 'Kickboxer' (but just can't get away with 'Bloodsport' and 'Double Impact'....yet everyone treats them as masterpieces?)
I'm not saying Van Damme has no martial Arts abilities (but it seems strictly limited to his legs) he has no weapon techniques, form, strikes or locks....and when he's not kicking, his (standard) punches are stiff (and mechanical) Chuck Norris can be (infuriatingly) similar at times (and Chuck is a genuine Martial Arts legend)
It pains me to say it, but without his (admittedly) flashy kicks, Van Damme has all the upper-body skills of Michael Dudikoff. Both 'strike the poses....but do little with them.
Look at Van Damme's knife-fight in Timecop (it's pitiful) and despite Peter Hyams stellar direction (cinematography and editing) it still looks feeble.
Van Damme has made some good movies (but I can never take him seriously as a badass) he seems too nice (too goofy) to convince.
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PrimeMinisterX (8767)
4 years ago
Van Damme is definitely a kicker, no doubt about that. Even this karate demo from his pre-fame days will show you that:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOfzOJ8K6Nw
I would totally LOVE to have footage of his competition bouts--whether karate or kickboxing--from back in the day, especially the kickboxing matches that he is supposed to have had. (I do think he did SOME kickboxing back in the day but I'm not sure if he did as much as he claimed.)
It's funny you bring up Chuck because I just recently started going through his filmography. Growing up, Chuck was really the action hero for the generation prior to mine and I didn't watch many of his films. He is like the forerunner to guys like Van Damme and Seagal. But just in the past couple of weeks I've watched Code of Silence, Invasion USA and The Octagon.
Watching his movies just confirmed what I had already gleaned from watching various clips of martial arts demos that I found on YouTube: While, as you say, he is a genuine martial arts legend, his style isn't very pretty to look at. His movements certainly didn't have a lot of fluidity, grace or beauty.
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