I finally watched this film today not knowing anything about its plot, only that Edward Norton pulls off a magnificent performance. That he did, and the same goes for most of the cast. Now, to the story, and, more importantly, its message.
Okay, to be honest I saw that twist coming from the first act. There were times when I doubted myself and I innerly hoped I was indeed wrong. Cue final scene and Aaron admits there was no Aaron. So, story aside, what are we left to think? That people with multiple-disorder syndromes are just hoaxters? That there isn't such an illness after all and that regardless of circumstance people must face the same consequences? Even death???
It really hurt to do so, especially considering Norton's stellar acting, but I had to give this movie a 1 as I got extremely sickened by the sad and inhumane undertones. It's like the author of the book this is based on (and most likely shared by the filmmaker) is trying to tell all potential jury members: "Never believe their insanity bogus. Hang 'em all!"
the movie is about the fact that "pedophilia is a rich man's sport", simply meaning [as we all saw with a very low level purge of the Catholic Church, that was more a cover-up] that such pedophiles are totally immune to prosecution.
along comes Roy as one of the victims 10 years before [with his mate Michael O'Donnell who TRIED to prosecute the bishop but Marty himself buried it deeper than bin Laden] who decides he has to do the job himself, so he practices Aaron for years, gets into bishop's household as Aaron and kills him.
he plans to use the flip device in court to get off [as we see he has also studied law in detail so knows about client privilege, double jeopardy etc, AND that his FAKED "mental state" will get him off] but he gets a BONUS when Marty and his huge EGO takes the case and he is able to USE Marty to carry out his plan even better.
but Marty is oblivious to what is going right PAST the end and is still shaking his head as he slinks out the back door, his ego dragging behind him.
I see that as a POSITIVE having been molested myself as a 12 year old by a lousy Catholic priest/pedophile, and my dad finding the law would NOT intervene.
so please watch again but for God's sake forget all about the stupid pronk of "twist"
That's exactly what I'm saying. He was a hoaxter and didn't have a split personality disorder, which is what makes me think the writer is pointing a finger at the whole "excuse" (which in my opinion is not an excuse at all) of criminals getting away with harsh penalties by pleading mentally insane.
I think the movie is about many things, mostly about Vail's ego getting screwed in all sorts of ways. But part of his getting screwed is his renewed belief in the intrinsic - let's call it - innocence of man. I'm fine with all of this but it's the using of a very serious and real disease to prove Vail wrong that disgusts me.
That said, I like how the molesting problem (which is also very real and serious, as you can witness) is brought up and dealt with. All in all a great film with a bitter aftertaste. At least for me.
remember movie IS topical as that was the time [america and Australia] that pedophiles in high places WERE exposed for a short time but alas covered up again
in Oz it was the famous Justice Yeldham in the Wood Royal Commission.
also there was only a "blind plea" of insanity and we would never know how Roy would have handled that if pleaded up front ie does he say "watch me change to Aaron" - he WOULD have been caught out.
the important thing was the bar scene where Vail's CONSCIENCE got in the way and he determined he MUST avenge the "bad bad thing" re O'Donnell.
the movie cleverly leaves it up to viewer to tie all that together and when he says "that was for Joey" he is also saying that was for forcing me to cover up on the bishop 10 years ago.
at that stage he unwittingly provides the platform for Roy to get himself off [I thought we were dancing] so it is all very clever.
bottom line for you seems to be pedophilia is "not all that bad" and I can't agree
You're everything that's wrong with imdb. You give a movie that by your own admissions had great performances in it a 1 because you didn't like it's "message". So you effect the rating of a movie with great performances in it, that could effectively change how this movie is viewed by people. You're telling people not to watch this movie because you saw some underlying message about mental illness portrayed in a negative way, which by the way I don't think is the message of the film at all.
That people with multiple-disorder syndromes are just hoaxters? That there isn't such an illness after all and that regardless of circumstance people must face the same consequences?
Yes, people with pretended multiple personalities are just hoaxers or people "misdiagnosed" by the other hoaxers: the psychiatrists/psychologists. I know it may be shocking to some, but there's no science in psychiatry. All the so-called "mental illnesses/disorders"/whatever have been invented and voted into existence by a bunch of crooks at the American Psychiatric Association. Sorry, but real illnesses are not voted into or out of existence, they're based on verifiable, indisputable, scientific evidence. Psychiatry is like witchcraft. Too bad, most people are too uneducated to understand.
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All the so-called "mental illnesses/disorders"/whatever have been invented and voted into existence by a bunch of crooks at the American Psychiatric Association.
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exactly, and that was the MESSAGE in the Sixth Sense where one of these "hero" shrinks diagnoses Cole BEFORE he has even seen him as having "mood swings" [ie a normal boy] and thus he gets the USUAL treatment of Zoloft.
but the shrink had already diagnosed another boy 10 years before [sounds similar to this movie huh?] as exactly the same mood swings
fortunately the boy KILLS the shrink [also kinda similar huh?]
That is not entirely true. There are several mental illnesses that were initially characterized by psychiatrists and are now acknowledged by neurologists as well. Case in point: schizophrenia. The term Schizophrenia itself was coined by psychiatrist and was initially thought of as spirit possession, alien attack and what not. Now we have advanced medical technique like Functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) to map brain activity and diagnose schizophrenics. Psychiatry like most of our medical science is evolving. Don't diss science because you don't like its portrayal in a movie. As a scientist, I get hurt
There are several mental illnesses that were initially characterized by psychiatrists and are now acknowledged by neurologists as well. Case in point: schizophrenia.
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but as you well know, the diagnosis is totally irrelevent because the "the cure" is always the same, ie administer Dr Mangle mind altering drugs [Zoloft, Cerapak, Prozac, Vallium, Ritalin - take you pick or mix and match].
that was the subject of Night's very clever message in The Sixth Sense where the "illness" is simply stated as "mood swings" and the code for treatment was "he couldn't help you"="put him on Zoloft".
so in this movie Roy is anything BUT mentally ill as he has fooled the entire medical/legal community, but the TWIST is how will he survive the drugs he is about to be given in hospital?
I guess he will be smart enough to find ways to NOT take them - very interesting.
that was the subject of Night's very clever message in The Sixth Sense where the "illness" is simply stated as "mood swings" and the code for treatment was "he couldn't help you"="put him on Zoloft".
I never got that about the Sixth Sense. Thinking about that movie now I just don't see it as having anything to do with knocking Psychiatry. You seem like you have a bone to pick about the mental health industry so that's your beef and that's ok. You remind me of Scientologists as they try their best to knock mental illness, all the while recruiting people who clearly have issues. They then apparently cure you of your Thetan problem by charging you a lot of money. At least Psychiatry has a set of ethical and moral standards practitioners adhere to.
I have Schizoaffective disorder and take Zoloft and Invega. A couple of things, you don't "cure" the mental illness you try to manage it with medication, and living with the management is infinitely better than living without it. Another thing is that there is a degree of art to Psychiatry because it's not an exact science but they're not witch doctors, that's entirely ridiculous to even suggest. My Psychiatrist did so much for me in the 3 years I saw him. I wish I was diagnosed 10 years earlier because I can see how it affected my life over the preceding years.
--- Scientologists love Narnia, there's plenty of closet space.
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Hey! I won't have that - stop insulting witchcraft!
At least witchcraft is based on reality, truth, nature and actually works. Of course, in the modern world, functional witchcraft is extremely rare to witness, but still.
Think back to Atlantis, ancient Egypt and their real, spiritual priests that knew what they were doing due to their training to handle all kinds of energies, lower and higher level spiritual abilities, temptations, super strong emotions and so on - that's what the initiation has always been about (not about some cult circle ritual invented by some idiots), that's why the pyramids are exactly the proportions they are and stand in the exact spots they do, to combine cosmic and planetary forces to protect the individual being initiated while their soul is outside of their body for extended periods of time.
That's why nothing rots in a pyramid built correctly at the correct place (around 2/3s from the ground), that's why it makes blades sharp and keeps them that way - it concentrates powerful energies to protect and nourish the body-energy system while the soul is away for extended period of time so the initiation can be done.
I know all of this is 'woosh' to this era's this planet's people, but someone has to tell the truth regardless.
So there's WAY more credence, history, truth, reality and actually effective power in witchcraft than psychiatry.
Note that the movie is mostly about showing that even the most seasoned (and in this case arrogant) lawyer can be wrong about their own client. There are lawyers who know their client is guilty and try to go for the lowest possible punishment anyway. In this case he was absolutely convinced of the Aaron's insanity. I think that since the prosecutor went for first degree murder and the death penalty, they face an impossible task in the end since they cannot possibly prove Aaron's sanity during the murder. Instead of seeing this as a documentary-style examination of the justice system, just enjoy it for what it is -- an impeccable excercise in deception.
Well, it's the whole 'western pharmaceutical treatment' approach to human health and the mystery of 'what makes someone a healthy human being' that psychiatry is only one part of.
Psychiatry is strange, because it requires no evidence, and it can lock away people without ANY due process - there are no courtrooms, lawyers, judges, defence, prosecution - all it takes to lock someone away and forcibly put them in neurotoxic drugs that commonly cause tardive dyskinesia, are just a couple of angry suicidal losers (research this, psychiatrists commit the most suicides, or at least used to - why is this, if it's a valid 'science'?) that parrot each other's 'diagnosis'' and a couple of signatures, and that's it. Now you have no rights, and you are treated as a faulty machinery fixable by synthetic lab chemicals that make a lot of money for the Big Pharma.
Between psychology and neuroscience, psychiatry sits somewhere in the middle - it's not really necessary, as if there's something actually structurally wrong with your brain, there's neuroscience to prove it. If there's something wrong with your 'thinking' (much harder to prove and closer to witchcraft), there's always psychology, that does NOT rely on simply drugging someone, but actually trying to dig into their thinking patterns and experiences and finding a perspective that might help them and so on (well, ideally anyway).
Human body is basically always treated as something that has to be 'treated' - it's NEVER to be cured, that would kill the Big Pharma business.
This has lead to a situation where millions of people that WOULD have been cured in ancient China with acupuncture and other methods, millions of people that COULD have been cured even in modern times by therapy and psychology and just 'better life circumstances' and someone listening and understanding them, are now basically 'permanently drugged' by the pharmaceutical chemical lab-concoctions, tested cruelly and USELESSLY on animals..
So when a psychiatric diagnosis is basically a debatable 'opinion' or 'viewpoint', and those that are diagnosed are usually ALREADY on mind-altering, powerful, brain-destroying, neuro-toxic synthetic chemical pharma-drugs, it's no wonder that people can be 'misdiagnosed' easily, and people can 'fake' these supposed (but unproven - there's not even one shred of evidence of actual existence of many of these) 'illnesses' convincingly.
I mean, no one knows what a 'mentally ill' individual would say in a given situation, so it's always subject to interpretation instead of being able to point at a muscle malfunction and data gathered from tests to say 'this muscle doesn't function properly, so this man has a muscular disorder', it's more a hazy matter of opinion, 'well, this man is interested in the topic of UFOs, so according to our bible.. I mean, this 'diagnostic manual', it means the man has a form of schizotypal disorder, case closed!'.
(This is actually a real example from one such manual, just by the way - an INTEREST in some topic means you are crazy - how insane is THAT?)
In this way, this movie is realistic. There is no reliable way of discerning someone who's faking 'mental illness' (could be diagnosed FOR that reason - no sane individual would ever fake a mental illness..?) and someone who actually has a 'mental illness' - which really just translates to 'wrongful thinking', when you get down to it.
A mental illness is not something that shows up in a CAT-scan or in any physical way in your body anyway, so it's a very hazy witchcraft-style opinion vortex that these 'mental health professionals' conjure up, usually with impressive-sounding word-salad designed to obfuscate the truth and to baffle the mind of a layman, and there's no REAL, conclusive way of testing something like this.
There are basically 'questionnaires' and 'ink blot tests' and that's as 'scientific' as it gets. There's no equipment that can measure or detect it. It's a sham.
Now, please note that I am not saying there are no crazy people. There are, most certainly.
However, I think psychiatrists are more insane than anyone else has ever been in the whole planet's history. Wanting to be a psychiatrist and becoming one should be the biggest proofs that someone is not only mentally imbalanced, but batsh1t crazy.