MovieChat Forums > The Hunchback of Notre Dame (1996) Discussion > One thing bothers me about "God Help the...

One thing bothers me about "God Help the Outcasts"...

posted 10 years ago by number9-4
25 replies | jump to latest

People on this board - and I think people from Disney itself - have commended Esmeralda for only praying for other people in the song, as highlighted by the line, "I ask for nothing, I can get by."

But Esmeralda had a pretty awful life - Dancing for money, which she didn't like to do, and constantly being harassed by corrupt guards. And there is not a quota on how many prayers you can send to God.

So it seems like they were sending the message that a strong woman and/or a truly kindhearted one would only pray for other people, not herself. And I don't think that's true. It's quite justified for someone to want to get a break from a miserable existence like that; I don't think it takes away from her concern for others that she would also want a less terrible life for herself, nor do I think that makes her weak.

It's not like she would be asking for fame and fortune; Just asking God, "Oh, and if you could maybe give me some kind of a break so that I don't have to dance for coins and then get harassed by bigoted guards over it, that would be nice too" seems perfectly reasonable and understandable to me.

[–] LittleLotte137 10 years ago

I think they were just trying to amplify her heart and her prayers against the other people in the church praying for me me me

[–] number9-4 10 years ago

I know, but it still sends the message that she's not as good a person if she also prays for herself. There is no limit on how many prayers you can send God. Frankly, I always thought it made Esmeralda (and she is my favorite Disney woman, so this is a minor criticism) look a little pigheaded and prideful, that she told God she didn't need any help herself.

[–] JJdaPK 10 years ago

Frankly, I always thought it made Esmeralda (and she is my favorite Disney woman, so this is a minor criticism) look a little pigheaded and prideful, that she told God she didn't need any help herself.

Well Esmerelda is a little prideful in that sense and I think that's sort of the point. You could see in her interactions with Pheobus that she prided herself in being able to handle her own (though in the end she did have to get saved by Quasimodo).

It may be a slight character flaw, but I think thats good. People are rarely completely humble or completely prideful.

[–] number9-4 9 years ago

Yeah, but I don't think that's supposed to be the point in this song. The directors have been quoted as saying the whole song is meant to showcase how, ironically, saintlike she is, given that Frollo thinks she's evil. So it just comes off like they tried a little too hard to make her seem selfless, to me. Like I said, just because you pray for your miserable life to get better, doesn't meant you aren't just as - if not more so - concerned for others as well.

[–] PreachCaleb 9 years ago

Like I said, just because you pray for your miserable life to get better, doesn't meant you aren't just as - if not more so - concerned for others as well.

There's your error. You assume Esmeralda feels her life is miserable.

She's obviously well-fed, healthy (physically, mentally, and emotionally), and has freedom. She's fine with her life and doesn't feel the need to ask for anything to be different.

Can't stop the signal.

[–] number9-4 9 years ago

That's not an error. She confesses to Quasimodo that if she could craft figurines like his, she wouldn't be dancing for a living, which shows she does not enjoy it. Not to mention, it's a pretty safe assumption that no one would like to constantly be harassed by bigoted guards just for trying to make a living.

[–] PreachCaleb 9 years ago

She confesses to Quasimodo that if she could craft figurines like his, she wouldn't be dancing for a living, which shows she does not enjoy it.

No, it just could mean she would enjoy crafting figurines more.

Not to mention, it's a pretty safe assumption that no one would like to constantly be harassed by bigoted guards just for trying to make a living.

Obviously not, but she mentions she can get by and doesn't need anything else.

You're confusing accepting your lot in life with hating your life.

Can't stop the signal.

[–] number9-4 9 years ago

She confesses to Quasimodo that if she could craft figurines like his, she wouldn't be dancing for a living, which shows she does not enjoy it.

No, it just could mean she would enjoy crafting figurines more.

You're completely ignoring context. The way she said it and the look on her face were quite obviously meant to convey that she wished she had another option besides being an exotic dancer. She seemed disdainful or even ashamed of the fact that she dances.

And even if she's accepted her lot in life for the time being, it doesn't mean praying to God for it to eventually get better makes her selfish or weak.

[–] PreachCaleb 9 years ago

She seemed disdainful or even ashamed of the fact that she dances.

Her tone was more happy for Quasi than ashamed of her life.

And even if she's accepted her lot in life for the time being, it doesn't mean praying to God for it to eventually get better makes her selfish or weak.

Of course not. But she felt others deserved her prayers more.

Can't stop the signal.

[–] number9-4 9 years ago

She seemed disdainful or even ashamed of the fact that she dances.

Her tone was more happy for Quasi than ashamed of her life.

Well, clearly we're just going to have to agree to disagree, because that's your opinion, and my opinion is that she seemed regretful about the way her life had turned out, dancing for coins instead of making a living in a more honorable way.

And even if she's accepted her lot in life for the time being, it doesn't mean praying to God for it to eventually get better makes her selfish or weak.

Of course not. But she felt others deserved her prayers more.

This ignores the point I've already made several times, which is that there is no limit on how many prayers you can send to God. So it makes no sense for Esmeralda to think, "Well, yeah, I could use a little help, but others need it more, so I won't pray for myself at all." She could pray for both herself and others.

[–] PreachCaleb 9 years ago

Well, clearly we're just going to have to agree to disagree, because that's your opinion, and my opinion is that she seemed regretful about the way her life had turned out, dancing for coins instead of making a living in a more honorable way.

It's not my opinion. It's clear in her tone.

So it makes no sense for Esmeralda to think, "Well, yeah, I could use a little help, but others need it more, so I won't pray for myself at all." She could pray for both herself and others.

She didn't want to. It's that simple. Sometimes people don't want to do something even if it's harmless.

Can't stop the signal.

[–] darkghost3400 9 years ago

Still, the line 'I ask for nothing I can get by' weakens the point of the song, since it is implying that she does not need God, which is arrogant, while the song was intended to show her as humble. The film is still one of the best versions of the story, but that was a failure.

[–] PreachCaleb 9 years ago

Not at all. It implies she knows there are others who need much more help than her. She's not starving. She's not sickly. She's not dying. She knows those are the ones who need God much more than her. She understands it's not all about her. That's the opposite of arrogant.

Can't stop the signal.

[–] darkghost3400 9 years ago

But she did imply that she didn't need God. Whoops.

[–] PreachCaleb 9 years ago

No, just that others need it more than her. Not asking for something doesn't mean you don't need it.

Can't stop the signal.

[–] Moonlighty 9 years ago

She doesn't in any way imply she doesn't need God, just that she doesn't personally need help at this moment and many people do. Just because you aren't begging for material things doesn't make it some insult to God. I can't believe what wrong theories people can come up with.

-
Consider the daffodil. And while you're doing that I'll be over here looking through your stuff.

[–] darkghost3400 9 years ago

I took that back.

[–] number9-4 9 years ago

Still, the line 'I ask for nothing I can get by' weakens the point of the song, since it is implying that she does not need God, which is arrogant, while the song was intended to show her as humble.

That's sort of how it came off to me, as well. Now, do I actually think Esmeralda is arrogant and doesn't believe she needs God? Of course not. She's pretty much the most Christ-like Disney heroine there is. But - and I believe I mentioned this somewhere else on this thread - what irks me about that line and, to some extent, the overall message of the song is that it reeks of overly simplistic "She's a tough girl who can fend herself" '90s feminism. Implying that being strong means never having a moment of fear or insecurity is unrealistic and divides women into two categories: fierce, ballbusting warriors or weak victims.

PS: Some people seem to be taking this thread personally, as though I'm bashing Esmeralda. I'm not. She's my favorite Disney woman. As stated above, it's all about what the songwriter had in mind with those lyrics.

[–] number9-4 9 years ago

Your definition of "clear in her tone" flies in exact opposition to what I find clear in her tone, so clearly one cannot rule on such things.

[–] darkghost3400 9 years ago

You have a point in the first part; In the second one, not so much.

[–] cartesianthought 9 years ago

I think there's a saying that there's a lot of poor people in the world who will share everything they have with a complete stranger and a lot of rich people who just want more and more.

[–] Unvoiced-Apollo 9 years ago

I think you're ignoring a crucial part of the song:

I ask for nothing
I can get by
But I know so many
Less lucky than I
Please help my people
The poor and downtrod

Everything everone else in the song is askimg for are things they can earn themselves without God's intervention and they are all superficial things as well (fame & money) Furthermore, Esmeralda believes in her own abilities and that anything that she would ask for herself she can get without divone intervention. She feels that there are people worse off than her and prays for them instead.

If you're happy and you know it, go sit in the corner and think about your life.

[–] Takedi21 8 years ago

Everything everyone else in the song is asking for are things they can earn themselves without God's intervention and they are all superficial things as well (fame & money)

I disagree with that, and hate how people like to shame those things. Fame is just a social status & money is just paper. These things in and of themselves are not inherently bad at all. It's the people behind those things making bad choices with it that's a bad thing. You can still be a really good, unselfish person and be famous at the same time (and use your powerful platform to make good, powerful, positive, influential changes in the world). You can still be a really good, unselfish person and be wealthy at the same time (and use your wealth to help out society & better the world at large). Having either of these things puts someone in a very powerful position where they have the great power to help out people who are a lot worse off than them.

Also about the first part of your sentence, they can't really get the opportunity by themselves. There are so many incredibly hard-working, skilled, talented people in this world who are masters at their craft & are all prepared should opportunity come knocking at their door. BUT not everyone gets that golden opportunity and that's where praying for God's intervention/fate comes in and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that at all.

[–] MarblesLove 9 years ago

I didn't take it as her not needing God so much as her just trying to say, as simply as she could, Sure I need you but I can get by, I'm fine but the people I care about, the people I love, my people, I don't want them to have to live like we live, so please, help them.

But I get what you're saying and I pretty much agree. I mean, it's not like asking for a little help for herself as well would have somehow made her this horrible selfish person.

Once upon a time there was a magical place where it never rained. The end.

[–] Takedi21 8 years ago

I agree with the OP.