MovieChat Forums > Hellraiser: Bloodline (1996) Discussion > Continuity Problem?

Continuity Problem?

posted 19 years ago by Count Graf Orlok
14 replies | jump to latest

Maybe I've missed something when I watched this, or maybe it's availabe in the Director's Cut that was never finished, but I haven't read anything about it yet so I wanted to throw it out there and see what anyone could come up with.

Ok, first we have to get a few facts down. Please, correct me if I'm wrong:

1. The box brings the Cenobites to punish (please) those who opened it, and Cenobites themselves are former humans who have opened the box.
--Therefore, no box, no Cenobites, correct?
2. When the box was first used, Anjelique appeared, circa 17-1800's.
--SO, Anjelique comes from hell to earth, and there are no Cenobites, because this is the first time the box has been used, right? And she is on earth until 1996, correct?
3. According to Hellraiser 3, "Pinhead" began as some sort of WWI (at the earliest) officer.

And here to my point. If "Pinhead" is "born" circa 191x's, and Anjelique escaped from hell c. 1796, wtf is with "Pinhead" and Anjelique's greeting at the beginning of the movie?

"Ahh, Anjelique, hell is much more ordered than in your time...and much less amusing," or something like that, is the line that "Pinhead" speaks once Anjelique's vicitim is killed and "Pinhead" emerges. Any thoughts? All I can figure is that Anjelique is some sort of legend in hell, but then again, "Pinhead's" greeting seems to be more familiar. Also, how the hell did Anjelique know about Cenobites? What's even harder to explain than how "Pinhead" knew Anjelique is how Anjelique knew "Pinhead." Anjelique has been walking earth since over 100 years before "Pinhead" was created.

Beyond all of that, this movie explains where the box came from, but when did it spit a demon out? Where in the timeline of the box does it exist to "pleasure" those who open it? Judging from the early scenes of Hellraiser 2, it's easy to assume that other demons were responsible for creating Cenobites, as well as Cenobites themselves, but it seems strange that the box somehow changed it's function between it's first use at the beginning of Bloodline up until at the very latest when Elliot Spencer opened it and became "Pinhead."

I'm sorry, it's long, I know. But it's been driving me crazy.

Patrick

[–] 19 years ago

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[–] alpha311 19 years ago

At the beginning of Bloodlines, you see Angelique being summoned from Hell by the evil french aristocrat. It was him who had devised the plans for the box to be built. But it took LeMerchand's genius as a toymaker to make it actually work. Demons from hell could be summoned long before the box was ever made. The box is more of a shortcut, a modern day device in which to perform the ceremony of summoning without having to draw elaborate designs on the ground to create the portal, capturing someone and skinning them so that the demon has something to contain them once they appear on earth...etc

Angelique is a demon far older then the current incarnation of Pinhead. The spirit of Pinhead, may even be older. You have to look to the comics based on Hellraiser to understand what is going on. The spirit of PinHead is the most evil, most ruthless, most brutal demon in the domain of Hell. He is the leader of the Church of Pain, of Leviathan's religion. It was the combination of Pinhead's spirit, with the body of Elliot Spencer, the human who opened the box during world war I that became Pinhead as we see him today.

[–] chris-norman 19 years ago

Uh, maybe they're just making it up as they go along. This whole series strikes me as improvisation with blood and entrails added. Maybe they had scripts when they began to shoot each movie, but I think they were soon tossed out.

Chris

[–] Deep_Fritz 19 years ago

the original script to this film makes a couple of points clear

1. angelique was summoned by the french duke BEFORE the first box was built (apparently through some ritual that is not further mentioned in the screenplay)
2. angelique designed the box, which could only be built after someone with lemerchand's genius had been born (they have apparently waited for someone like him for ages)
3. the duke sends angelique back to hell
4. his servant then summons her again
5. angelique and pinhead are in a power struggle (they have different views about what hell should be like), which becomes eveident in the second part of the script. as angelique tries to get rid of pinhead through the use of the elysian configuration (which is the same thing that paul in the future uses to close the portal forever)
6. lemerchands bloodline is to be eliminated after he has built the box (as he is the one who can create a permanent gateway to hell, he can also shut the gates of hell forever) - this also leads to conflict between angelique and pinhead
7. all of the lemerchant incarnations die (including the guy in the future) - this therefore concludes the entire series as no one will ever again be able to create a new gateway
8. it is never explained where the twim cenobite comes from (he just shows up in the last part of the script)

in regards to the greeting between pinhead and angelique - don't forget that the pinhead we know is just a current incarnation of an even older demon

hope this helps

[–] afulop5195 19 years ago

8)

When I saw the movie, there was a scene the explicitly showed the creationof the twin cenobite. In the modern day portion, there are these twins who are security guards. They follow what sounds like cries for help and enter a door where they are ambushed by pinhead.

[–] shabbadabbadoo 19 years ago

Who is to say that time has any meaning in Hell?

If you go there, and you are supposed to be there for eternity, then theoretically time may not actually move forward. So, essentially, once you go to Hell you have always been there....

Just a thought.

[–] Deep_Fritz 19 years ago

uh - no. there is a short dialogue between pinhead and angelique which is about how hell has changed since she left

[–] ScarecrowX 19 years ago

But that breaks continuity as Hell hasn't really changed. It's more about her lost Clowns which were cut from the film.

- Scarecrow
(www.cenobite.com)

[–] Deep_Fritz 19 years ago

point well taken - i was referring to the script though not to this mess of a film that eventually was put together

[–] Wild_Dogs 19 years ago

Whats that about Angelique being Hell's Princess?

Leviathan has offspring?

[–] patrick_bateman_90056 19 years ago

It's a possibilty, though one that has been unexplored since Leviathan was prettz much erased after Hell on Earth.

Hopelessly in love with Uma Thurman, Maggie Gyllenhaal, and Emmy Rossum

[–] antagonist001 19 years ago

Pinhead wasn't born when he took over that dudes body in ww2. Pinhead is actually a demon that has been alive much longer in hell. That guy was just a conduit for him to enter the real world.

[–] kcanavan84 15 years ago

This and every other film with the exception of Hellbound completely lose sight of what the idea behind hellraiser was in the first place. Pinhead isn't supposed to be a demon and there it isn't supposed to be hell at all.
The cenobites are only supposed to be interested in people who "summon" them with the use of the box...

Some of you will remember that I have an extraordinary visual sense

[–] 19 years ago

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