Utilitarian Ethics or Individual Rights?
I for one think that individual rights trump the utilitarian (greatest good) view... particularly so if I'm the guy getting chopped up!
shareI for one think that individual rights trump the utilitarian (greatest good) view... particularly so if I'm the guy getting chopped up!
shareI'm the first responder to this post, more than 5 months later? I guess this discussion is a bit too highbrow for IMDB message boards. :-)
(Only kidding)
Personally, I think it depends on the situation. If it was the dilemma that Hackman's character described - if cutting up one person cured cancer- then by all means, cut me up! It would be incredibly selfish to say otherwise.
But Grant's character is also correct that it needs to be an agreed-upon choice. Kidnapping people off the streets and operating on them without their permission, as Hackman's character did, is wrong, no matter what the result.
"I only drink the blood of my enemies...and the occasional strawberry Yoo-Hoo."
-Red vs. blue
Individual rights. Without them we are nothing.
In this movie as en example, there are enough paralyzed people who would gladly volunteer for such a trial. To do it on purpose to unwitting victims is just wrong. Since America has a lot of problems with "ethical" treatment, I'm sure the lab could be set in another country and be just as successful.
modgirl-3 on Tue Jun 3 2008 17:34:28
Individual rights. Without them we are nothing.
In this movie as en example, there are enough paralyzed people who would gladly volunteer for such a trial. To do it on purpose to unwitting victims is just wrong.
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People will not volunteer for a procedure that will most likely kill them. Even if they would they couldn’t. You heard the doctor, it would be decades before they could move to human subjects and at 68 he didn’t have that time.
Those people were no benefit and basically waiting to die. There is a moral dilemma that is sure but just like Grant chose to work on the policeman instead of the shooter it is waging the comparative value of human life. Would a person save some shooter would go to prison and then do the crime again or a police officer dedicated to serving people at the risk of his own life. The choice is obvious, however it is the same choice just a different situation.
A life for a life or a couple lives for thousands of lives.
Don’t say the shooter lived, that was just luck he could have just as easily died.
Why do you say someone's no benefit? who are you to make such statement? doesn't anyone have the right to just live?
Besides, Grant didn't choose to work on the policeman, he had to because of the pressure from the other detectives and policemen in the clinic.
I agree that was a pretty awful statement to make. To say that although the subjects kidnapped were healthy homeless men, they were of no benefit to society and were basically waiting to die. Can we devalue human life anymore than that? Something has gone wrong with the way people are thinking. The person that made that statement clearly doesn't realize that hardworking people & their families are becoming homeless everyday. Does a human life lose its value the second it ceases to produce an income?
share[deleted]
I completely agree. Even though the utilitarian view serves a "higher" purpose, the significant matter revolves around the idea of choice. If they could get volunteers, great; if not, then no person has the right to arbitrarily decide the value of the life of another human being. To anyone interested in a topic like this, I would suggest giving Dostoyevsky's Crime and Punishment a look. Somewhat long, but his psychological approach to the megalomaniac character is incredible. Personally, that book changed how I look at situations and analyze people's actions.
shareIt was utilitarian ethics that ruled Naziism and is the primary force of communism.
Speaking of "higher purposes" , there can be no higher purpose than honoring the right of every individual to live for their own sake.
No one, nor any "ruling" body, has the right to decide for another what is best for the one, or the many.
Yet, our own "righteous" government does this daily with military excursions into places where they were not invited, incurring deaths of civilians not involved in any perceived wrongdoings, but justifying it as inevitable outcomes of war and labeling it "collateral damage".
When Tim McVea did it, he was a terrorist. When his government does it, it's sadly "unavoidable".
When several hundred thousand Iraqi children were documented by the Red Cross as having perished as a result of sanctions, Madeleine Albright said, "We think the price was worth it."
You see a movie like this that frames the issue in bright lights and makes a statement few would argue with. You hear a quote like that, and most people just yawn and could not care less.
Speaking of Russian authors who adress this issue in classic literature, The Brothers Karamazov, by Dostoyevsky, has this as it's central theme. The main character is asked if he could eliminate all worldly suffering by torturing to death one innocent child, would he do it?
I know some who wouldn't give it a second thought.
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