MovieChat Forums > Everybody Loves Raymond (1996) Discussion > Ally's F

Ally's F

posted 8 years ago by !!!deleted!!! (54110396)
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There was always something that bothered me about this episode.

At the start of the episode, Ally is in the kitchen with Debra, and behaves very defiantly towards Debra. Ray comes into the kitchen after work, carrying the mail. Ally unsuccessfully intercepts a letter with her midterm grades that shows she has earned an "F" in Math. When Debra calmly asks, "What's going on with math?", Ally goes into a tirade about how Debra always overreacts, and storms out of the room. At that point Ray says to Debra, "She's not completely wrong." Really, Ray should have went upstairs to confront Ally about her behavior, her tone, and grades.

Then Ray and Debra have a conference with the teacher, Mr, Putnam, who seems somewhat frustrated with teaching middle school children. This frustration allows Ray to say to Debra that the teacher is "lame," and that Ally and the other kids hate math for a good reason. He never rationally thinks, while I don't care for the teacher, Ally still needs to get her grades up.

Then, at home, Debra and Ally are upstairs screaming at one another because Debra is making Ally study math. When Debra comes downstairs, Frank, Marie, Robert, Amy, Ray and Debra discuss the situation. Marie tells Debra not to take this statement as a criticism, "You can't expect to impose discipline on children who have never had any." It had been established in Season 7, The Disciplinarian, that Ray was the parent who lacked the fortitude to stand up to his children, and to be an effective parent. Debra could have easily pointed this out to all of them, but misses the opportunity. Then, Ray proceeds to talk about how some teachers are bad and don't relate to kids.

We find out later that Ally has a crush on a boy in the class, and this might have to do with why Ally is having trouble in math. Debra explains this to the teacher, and he rails that he could care less about the students' home lives and love lives. While I'm certain that the math teacher is under pressure by parents and the administration for the children to be successful, he could have easily said, "Thank you for the information." Instead he raises his voice at Debra that she should be a parent at home if she really wants to help.

So basically, Debra received harsh criticism and feedback from her husband, her mother-in-law, and the teacher about Ally's F. Conversely, Ray emerges from this situation unscathed.

What really bothers me, in the episode that aired right before Ally's F, Boys' Therapy, Ray admits that he is not a good father, and nonchalantly passes it off and blames Frank. That would have been an opportunity for Ray to reflect on some changes he might have wanted to make since he and Robert carried lingering resentment towards Frank about his neglect and verbal abuse, and one could imagine Ally, and more likely, the twins confronting Ray when they were adults about Ray's parenting.

I understand it's a sitcom, and for the most part, I find this show very funny, but this episode bothered me.

[–] andrereichenbacher 8 years ago

I wholeheartedly agree. I hate this episode, and IMO it's one of the worst ones of the entire series overall. At one time before it was deleted I wrote a post called "Why Ally Got An F And Why We Should Care", but I wrote it from a different perspective and took why I didnt like it in a different direction than yours. But I still agree that this episode was terrible. For one thing, the France-bashing from Frank was totally out of place and completely unnecessary. A product of it's times is all it was.

On the other hand, I really liked "The Disciplinarian", as it had some good dialogue and a really funny ending where Ray actually gets what he deserves for once. Thanks for your contribution on this subject!

[–] ERThree 8 years ago

At that point Ray says to Debra, "She's not completely wrong." Really, Ray should have went upstairs to confront Ally about her behavior, her tone, and grades.

What Ray actually did was not out-of-character for him at all, though.

This frustration allows Ray to say to Debra that the teacher is "lame," and that Ally and the other kids hate math for a good reason. He never rationally thinks, while I don't care for the teacher, Ally still needs to get her grades up.

I agree that a poor teacher doesn't fully excuse a bad grade, but the teacher causing the other kids to hate math is a valid hypothesis. I had a teacher in my senior year of high school that was absolutely horrible at teaching calculus, and while I managed to pass the class, I completely hated it, and the grade I got in that class was the lowest one I ever had in high school.

While I'm certain that the math teacher is under pressure by parents and the administration for the children to be successful, he could have easily said, "Thank you for the information." Instead he raises his voice at Debra that she should be a parent at home if she really wants to help.

Some people are just jerks. That's all there is to it.

So basically, Debra received harsh criticism and feedback from her husband, her mother-in-law, and the teacher about Ally's F. Conversely, Ray emerges from this situation unscathed.

I'm sure Ray would have received the same amount of criticism if he had investigated the situation as much as Debra did, but he didn't, because that wouldn't fit his character. Debra is the one who consistently attempts to be the problem-solver on the show.

What really bothers me, in the episode that aired right before Ally's F, Boys' Therapy, Ray admits that he is not a good father, and nonchalantly passes it off and blames Frank. That would have been an opportunity for Ray to reflect on some changes he might have wanted to make since he and Robert carried lingering resentment towards Frank about his neglect and verbal abuse, and one could imagine Ally, and more likely, the twins confronting Ray when they were adults about Ray's parenting.

That never really bothered me because the Barones are frequently shown to be hypocrites. Besides, this show has always taken the Seinfeldian approach of making the characters fully fleshed out with little character development (with the obvious exception of Robert, of course). For example, the ending of "No Roll!" has Ray and Debra agreeing to have sex more often if Ray makes an effort to listen to her more often, but lo and behold, Debra continues to turn him down on a regular basis in future episodes.

[–] !!!deleted!!! (54110396) 8 years ago

I think you hit the nail on the head on when you say there was little in terms of character development. I think in the earlier seasons there was an attempt by the writers to make Ray aware of his limitations as a father and a husband, and have him want to improve, sometimes begrudgingly. In the later seasons, there seems to be an unwillingness to have Ray make any substantive changes, at all, and he becomes more self-centered and less interested in his marriage, and especially, his children. Maybe because the show is a situation-comedy its first priority is to induce laughs, but there have been other series, such as Sex and the City, in which there is growth among the characters as the series progresses.

[–] Wildstyle26 8 years ago

It depends on the show. Is Sex and the City a sitcom? I never watched it.

But with sitcoms, at least 90% of the time, characters get more exaggerated as time goes on. They become caricatures of how they once were, because after a few seasons, you run out of story-lines for the normal characters. It's happened on Roseanne, Friends, Three's Company -even family films and kid shows. ELR Debra got more shrill and constantly fed-up. Frank got meaner. Ray got stupider, and became a selfish, ego-maniac, man-child. Robert got more petty and pathetic, and his martyr attitude were frustrating. Marie got worse as well, and became the complete villain of the last 2 seasons.

It also happened a lot on ELR where a story-line gets resolved at the end. It gives the episode a happy ending, but you can't keep it that way because then there'd be nor dysfunction to laugh at. Look at the times Ray has promised he'd try harder around the house, and the next episode, he's the same as always. I recall 3 times off the top of my head where he said he'd do better, and he never does. Look at the Sleepover at Peggy's episode. In the end, it seemed the 2 of them called a truce, and Ray came to understand Peggy and why she was the way she was. He sees she had a husband exactly like him, and their marriage was like his and Debra's. Ray comes home and takes care of Debra while she sick. Bam, next episode all of that is out the window, and Ray and Peggy go back to hating each other again.

Also with regards to the discipline, I agree with Marie. Debra has no problem yelling at the kids. But at the end of the day, they're always running around screaming like maniacs, while Debra and Ray either ignore them, or give a half-assed "Settle down" while they continue doing it.
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If you're gonna pretend to cut her hair, at least put some scissors in your hand!

[–] !!!deleted!!! (54110396) 8 years ago

Sex and the City was more of comedy/drama, and wasn't filmed before an audience so it was probably an unfair comparison on my part.

I agree with your analysis on how characters become more exaggerated over time. Certainly on Friends, Joey became more dim-witted, Monica was more OCD, and Ross emerged more needy and whiny, but at the same time, I thought Rachel was more developed than she had been in the beginning-she was still spoiled but her character had shown some growth along the way.

With Ally's F (and Boys Therapy), on ELR, these episodes were in Season 9! They already knew it was the last season so maybe we could have seen a little change from Ray. Like you mentioned, it becomes frustrating rather than funny to watch the characters behave exactly the same year after year.

As far as Debra and Ray's childrearing, you're absolutely correct, Debra and Ray seemed overwhelmed most of the time. There are some funny episodes like Tissues and Sweet Charity that demonstrate that fact. If Ally was behaving like that at 13, imagine what the the next few years would have been like!

[–] Wildstyle26 8 years ago

It can still work. Characters getting exaggerated can happen any time when you see them a lot. If some shows have more to work with, then hopefully they don't fall into that cliche category.

With Friends, Rachel was the only one who didn't turn into a parody. lol But I think it was worst on Joey and Phoebe. Joey's stupidity bordered on annoying rather than funny. And Phoebe became a huge bitch after her character got pregnant.

Sadly, ELR wrote themselves into a corner. The dysfunction and drama is where the source of comedy is. So the characters have to stay nasty for the show to work. Everyone was more normal at the start. Had problems, but seemed like decent people. Now they're out of ideas for those characters.

Look at Frank in the early seasons. In the pilot, he hugs Ray and is happy to see him visit. We hear about him telling Ray and Robert bedtime stories. He practice Mickey Mantle's signature so he could sign the ball and make Ray happy. He tried to get Ray the real autograph and waited outside the stadium for Mickey to come out. He's even shown to like singing when he goes to a karaoke bar to sing. Then following Ray to school when he started walking alone. Frank from season 4 down would never do any of the things mentioned, and stories about Ray and Robert's childhood include Frank ignoring, or mocking them, for the most part.

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If you're gonna pretend to cut her hair, at least put some scissors in your hand!