MovieChat Forums > Everybody Loves Raymond (1996) Discussion > Who's worse Ray or Debra?

Who's worse Ray or Debra?

posted 8 years ago by mistymturnerhustad
13 replies | jump to latest

It seems like every time I see anything about Everybody Loves Raymond it is always about who is worse Ray or Debra, most people hating Debra. The fact is I think they are just a horrible couple who bring out the worst in each other. The fact is seperately they might be fine, but together they are horrible. While I do think Debra really is mean and constantly yelling, the fact is Ray is lazy and a mama's boy. However, since I don't think their necessarily bad people I think there's a chance Debra wouldn't be so mean if she actually had a partner willing to share the load and be there for her, and I think Ray maybe wouldn't be lazy if he was with someone who showed real appreciation for what he did do. I am not saying they should necessarily get divorced, I think marriage is sacred, but these two never should have gotten married in the first place. I know in the flashbacks things are completely different before they are married so maybe they didn't know this,but I find it hard to believe there were no red flags along the way.

[–] leedeelee 8 years ago

That's easy! Whatever his faults, Ray constantly apologizes and tries to make it up to her, but does she do the same for him? Ever??

[–] mistymturnerhustad 8 years ago

I've seen Ray apologize, but I've never really seen him try to make anything up to her. In my opinion if all you do is apologize, but don't actually try and change anything, you are just apologizing to get out of the fight and it doesn't mean anything. Also half the time he was apologizing he was trying to get sex.

[–] leedeelee 8 years ago

Well, there's the time he taped over their wedding video by mistake and then offered (genuinely) to renew their vows, there was the time she wanted time to herself so he took the kids to the park, there was the Superbowl where he asked her to go after finding out how much she wanted to go, there was the time he did the shopping because she said he didn't do enough, there was the time he offered to play golf with her because she thought he wanted to play golf too often... shall I go on? Because I easily can-

[–] mistymturnerhustad 8 years ago

Renewing their wedding vows was genuinely a nice thing, it was actually a little bit of a battle to get Ray to take the kids to the park and that's not really doing something for her, how is taking care of his own kids for a little while doing her a favor?. It really something about him that it happens so rarely that he does things with own kids that one would think it's a big deal when he actually does it, in the Superbowl episode Ray wanted to get rid of Debra that wasn't a favor for her either, honestly I don't remember him doing the shopping, in the golf episode that was Debra trying to spend time with Ray by doing something with him he enjoyed and even after he enjoyed doing it with her, Ray still made a point of turning around and telling her how much he hadn't wanted her to go with him which was just mean, so yes I think you'll have to go on because other than the episode about the wedding tape none of these are good examples. If anything the one about taking the kids to the park is an example of how horrible he is, if it such an out of the ordinary thing and huge deal that he would take care of his own kids for a whole hour.

[–] leedeelee 8 years ago

It was implied that he took the kids to the park on her time, not his. And reluctant does not equal "horrible" in my book and neither does befriending the other Moms and helping out with their kids. The point is that every single time (even if he wasn't successful) he was genuinely sorry for what he did and wanted her to be happy. And he didn't say he didn't want her to go to the Superbowl, it just wasn't his first choice. I was with him, he got the tix for his job, who would think to take their wife, unless she was a sports fan. I never saw him not feel bad for his mistakes, but she apologized only twice that I remember. She was FAR worse, and in real life, he would have left her in a heartbeat.

[–] mistymturnerhustad 8 years ago

I am sorry Ray wasn't at work so his time was his family's time. What your saying is that man only has to take care of his kids when he feels like it, a woman would never get away with saying that. And it wasn't just that he was reluctant, it was that it was a fight every single time she wanted him to take the kids. And I disagree that he was always genuinely sorry for what he did. Saying he is sorry doesn't mean he is genuinely is sorry. If he was genuinely sorry you'd see some change in his behavior in the future. We never did. I think he just he was sorry so she would stop yelling at him. As for the Superbowl episode I agree he shouldn't have had to take Debra, but just man up and tell her you don't want to take her. That is an example of a time Debra was wrong yes,but that's not what you said. You said he told her to leave as favor to her because it was what she wanted. He didn't do that as a favor to her, he didn't want her there either. Again just because Ray says he's sorry does not mean he is genuinely sorry. As for Debra she definately should have apologized more than she did, still I'd rather someone not say they are sorry when they don't mean it than say they are sorry when they are not because after awhile that just makes their apologies meaningless and she'd have no reason to believe him if he ever was sincere. And no Ray would not have left her because he had to get off his ass to do it. I get that you hate Debra, I can't really stand her either, I just don't think Ray is any better. And honestly you must be a man if you think Ray taking care of his own kids is somehow a favor to Debra. I am sorry Debra didn't make those kids by herself.

[–] leedeelee 8 years ago

I think you are getting way too upset, and I don't want that in the board's last week. Did you ever watch The Flintstones or the The Honeymooners? That shows my age, but in each show as in this one, it's the premise of a "bufoon", but a harmless one that is portrayed, and I guess we all perceive that in a different way depending on our circumstances. I was married to that buffoon, but he was not harmless; he did not walk in the door with a chipper cute nickname each night, would never be with his child and would never have offered to fix anything so, yeah I see Ray in a positive light. I will not depart from my belief that he would have left her, if not physically, then emotionally in having an affair. Without a doubt, because of what Debra did to his ego. I would bet money on that!

[–] mistymturnerhustad 8 years ago

I am actually not upset at all. I just strongly disagree with you. I think Ray is horrible. I am sorry if you were married to someone so horrible that Ray is good in comparison. It reminds me of some women I've known that have had the bar set so low that any man that didn't hit them or cheat on them was a good guy. There should be higher standards for a man, for a human, than hey they are not as bad as that person. I was born in the 80s so The Flintstones and The Honeymooners were after my time, but I loved watching the reruns of the Flintstones when I was a kid, and I tell you I'd rather be married to Fred than Ray. Fred was a buffoon but he adored Pebbles and loved spending time with her, it wasn't effort to get him to do it. I totally agree with you that the what Debra does to Ray's ego is horrible and I don't think she is a good wife, in fact I think it reflects badly on her as a woman. I just don't think Ray is any better.

[–] leedeelee 8 years ago

So then we agree to disagree. I respect that!🙋

[–] mistymturnerhustad 8 years ago

Hey I don't think we disagree on how horrible Debra is, just how horrible Ray is, so we only half way disagree. That's cool!

[–] leedeelee 8 years ago

😀

[–] Hans-Wilhelm (1365) 8 years ago

I suppose it is jut a matter of opinion but for me personally I considered Debra worse more often than Ray.

The deciding factor was who seemed more malicious. Ray, screwed up a lot but there seemed no malice in what his faults were. He was just selfish and liked to go off and do his own thing without thinking of others. He kind of put himself first. He was kind of spoiled as a kid (by his mom) so I suppose that is where that comes from.

With Debra, many of her attacks, assaults and interactions with Ray and towards Ray seemed like actual hate. She seemed to despise him and didn't offer him actual value as a human being.

Ray just seeming self centered and aloof vs. her seeming to actually hate Ray and to belittle him as a human and to physically hit him and call him names makes me lean towards Debra being worse.

[–] WhaChaChaKing (23) 8 years ago

Debra is worse. Though I agree that they would be better spouses if they were with someone else. Raymond is lazy but he actually goes to work. She, at least when the kids are at school, doesn't do much as far as I'm concerned. She could do a few errands, I guess, but I don't think that compares to going to work. You can say she cleans but the mom always buts in and cleans up so I'm not sure how much work that actually is. I agree he should help out with the kids and around the house but I think it should also be acknowledged that he works most of the day and is probably worn out by the time he gets home which is around the same time the kids also get home. He may complain a lot but he usually ends up doing what she tells him to do. Not only that but she gets physical with him a lot and is extremely verbally abusive. Calls him "idiot", "moron", and more I can't remember right now. I know if there was a show where the man called his wife those things people would be disgusted but when it's a guy being belittled it's for laughs.