See, I used to think everything he said up until Soze was the same story he told the DA but it can't be. The DA and the lawyers protecting Verbal were only interested in the boat massacre. That's what he got immunity for (and the weapons charge).
I'm sure he told them something about how the gang ended up at the boat massacre. How they met at the line up, how they pulled their first job together, etc. It seems he initially put most of the blame on McManus.
VERBAL:I came clean. I told it like it happened on the boat. So what if I left out how I got there? It's got so many holes in it, the D.A. would've told me to blow amnesty out my ass. So you got what you wanted out of me. Big *beep* deal.
They're talking about the boat job specifically and how Soze hired them. That's what he left out. The story he told the DA made it appear it was the gang's own initiative.
The Redfoot story is made up for the benefit of tricking Kujan. Which means he had no reason to share any of this with the DA.
He wanted to trick the DA as well. Confessing to murder would make him more believable. And Verbal had already started telling how the gang was going to meet up with Redfoot in LA before Kujan forced him to make up the nonsense about Kobayashi. So he already planned on using Redfoot for something.
And that throws into question the whole Saul event and even the taxi service. Kujan COULD'VE checked up on those but he was so obsessed with Keaton he didn't seem to care.
Kujan was from New York, he would've known about something like the taxi service heist and its consequences for the police department. Just like the cops in LA who were listening in would know about some jeweller and his bodyguards being shot in a parking garage.
And if Saul is made up, then Verbal just confessed to a crime outside of the harbor incident for which he got immunity.
During an interrogation that was most likely illegal to a cop who didn't care and already admitted he couldn't make a legal case against him. Kujan made clear from the beginning that he thought Verbal was hiding something and threatened with violence if he didn't reveal it. So why would Kujan expect Verbal to tell him anything if there wasn't some understanding between them that it wouldn't be used against him? So even if Verbal never told the DA about Saul, he knew it would be no harm to confess to murder and it would only make him more believable. Plus, it would help him stall until he posted bail.
That means the filmmakers are just picking and choosing what's real or not on a whim.
The board already showed Verbal picked random details that didn't even matter to the story. He just liked making up stuff. But we only know for sure that the name Redfoot was made up. We have no idea if the guy himself did exist, or if the whole gang was even involved in Saul Berg's murder if it did really happen.
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RomaVictorrrr
10 years ago
So even if Verbal never told the DA about Saul, he knew it would be no harm to confess to murder and it would only make him more believable. Plus, it would help him stall until he posted bail.
"No harm to confess to murder"? I guess, according to the forced logic of the movie. I still think talking about a murder to a gov't agent was a risky move to the immunity his lawyers fought so hard to get for him.
He just liked making up stuff.
I suppose that's one way to rationalize things, including the fact that he didn't really have to say anything in the first place while waiting for his bail to clear.
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Stratego
10 years ago
"No harm to confess to murder"? I guess, according to the forced logic of the movie. I still think talking about a murder to a gov't agent was a risky move to the immunity his lawyers fought so hard to get for him.
They didn't have to fight that hard, he got total immunity while the DA wanted to prosecute him for the murder of 27 people. He was protected by "the prince of darkness", one phone call to the mayor seemed enough. Verbal also confessed to the taxi service job and admitted that Keaton was the mastermind behind it all and probably still alive. That last thing would certainly blow his deal, but Kujan didn't care, he only wanted to know what happened to Keaton. And like I said, I don't think he was even allowed to do anything with the information.
I can't comment at all on how things like this go down in real life, but it doesn't go against the logic of the movie.
I suppose that's one way to rationalize things, including the fact that he didn't really have to say anything in the first place while waiting for his bail to clear.
That's THE way to rationalize things, because, as you say, he didn't have to say anything. It makes sense since he's also the person who created the whole Soze myth, he rambles on about unimportant anecdotes and the name Soze means "talk" in Turkish. He simply enjoyed playing games with the police.
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RomaVictorrrr
10 years ago
You really monitor this board closely, don't you? :)
His "enjoying playing games" is something the audience just has to assume, even though it's silly.
It's still a fun movie that I've seen too many times, but I think I'm starting to agree with the people who say this movie is deceitful. And I agree with Roger Ebert:
the "solution," when it comes, solves little - unless there is really little to solve, which is also a possibility.
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Stratego
10 years ago
His "enjoying playing games" is something the audience just has to assume, even though it's silly.
I don't think so, it's basically what the whole movie is about. Why else would he let himself get arrested, why else would he even talk to Kujan, why else would he ramble on about details that don't matter, why else would he go as far as pretending to be a cripple, why else does he nonchalantly make his getaway with a smile on his face, why else would he even create such an elaborate myth as Keyser Soze? It's a logical assumption, not everything has to be said out loud.
The movie is "deceitful" because Verbal admitted to murder? Well, at least it's not a plothole.
There's legit criticism and then there's Roger Ebert's review, which was just plain bad. Obviously we know more than at the start and Verbal is revealed as the bad guy, which already is a solution in itself. We also know what happened on the boat and why, which was the initial question. The whole review was just him being butthurt because most of the movie turned out to be a fictional story told by one of the characters. His prerogative, but I've seen better arguments on this board.
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RomaVictorrrr
10 years ago
Deceitful and silly. Good thing the story he spins is a fun one.
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Stratego
10 years ago
Well yeah, the story isn't very realistic. But again, the movie is deceitful because Verbal confesses to murder?
I don't think the movie is really that deceitful. Sure, things are set up so the audience is put on the wrong track, but it doesn't hide the fact that the story we see is just a story told by one of the characters. It's kind of our own fault to assume that what we see is what really happened.
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RomaVictorrrr
9 years ago
Sure, things are set up so the audience is put on the wrong track, but it doesn't hide the fact that the story we see is just a story told by one of the characters. It's kind of our own fault to assume that what we see is what really happened.
That makes the movie deceitful. Verbal supposedly getting caught and spinning this whole story because he, what, enjoys telling stories? Silly.
And yes, I still think Verbal confessed to a crime when he didn't have to. But it doesn't matter because the movie can pick and choose what's important and then say that it's "our own fault" for believing it.
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Stratego
9 years ago
Verbal supposedly getting caught and spinning this whole story because he, what, enjoys telling stories?
Huh? How does the movie deceive the audience because a character likes making up stories? I think you have to explain that better.
And no, the reason Verbal makes up stories is to mislead the police. He didn't HAVE to tell Kujan anything, but he liked making him think something else happened and it would put him on the wrong track.
But it doesn't matter because the movie can pick and choose what's important and then say that it's "our own fault" for believing it.
I have no idea what you're trying to say with that. It's not about "pick and choose", it's about a character telling a story, so you can't be sure about anything except those things that can be checked. Verbal made up details to stall and distract. But the only important thing was why all those men on the boat were killed and what happened to Keaton, and those questions were answered.
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Gabe1972
9 years ago
I don't see it as deceitful, just part of the goofy story told by Kint. If you want to see a deceitful movie, one in which the film flat out lies to you, watch "Kiss The Girls". The plot twist involves a complete and flat out lie to the audience, and one that completely ruins the film. It's the only film I've ever seen where the film flat out lies to its audience and we are supposed to accept it.
If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure. - George W. Bush
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