I have always thought that Lucifer is Satan, but that it is just two different names.
After reading here though, I'm not so sure, so I was hoping someone could give me a summary about what is right and what is wrong? And if they are not the same "creature", who are they, and why is it commong knowledge that Satan and Lucifer is the same beeing?
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The passage in Isaiah Ch. 14 you are all referring to where the word Lucifer is mentioned has nothing to do with angels, demons, God, or Satan. The word comes from the Latin "lucem ferre" or "light bearer" and was the name back then for the planet Venus, or the Morning Star. The whole passage is:
12 How you are fallen from heaven, O Day Star(lucifer), son of Dawn! How you are cut down to the ground, you who laid the nations low!
13 You said in your heart, ‘I will ascend to heaven; above the stars of God I will set my throne on high; I will sit on the mount of assembly in the far north;
14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will make myself like the Most High.’
15 But you are brought down to Sheol, to the depths of the Pit.
16 Those who see you will stare at you, and ponder over you: ‘Is this the man who made the earth tremble, who shook kingdoms,
17 who made the world like a desert and overthrew its cities, who did not let his prisoners go home?'
(From http://www.crivoice.org/lucifer.html) Isaiah ch. 14 is the second chapter in a section of the book known as "Oracles Against Foreign Nations...." Isaiah ch. 13 is part of the oracle directed against Babylon... Ch. 14 begins with the promise of Israel's return from Babylonian exile... Part of that return would involve the downfall of the tyrant king of Babylon... Verses 12-21 (where the word "lucifer" is used, the only place in the bible) are a poetic picture of that downfall.
You can interpret the verses easily, given the context above. "You who laid the nations low" would mean the arrogance of Babylon and the lack of concern for other nations as the empire was built. The Latin word "lucifer," coming from the Hebrew "helel," would be a reference to the Babylonian deity personified by the king--remember the custom of royalty of this time period to be considered as fleshy forms of their religion's gods. The Babylonian king, like the Egyptian pharaohs, would be considered to be the god himself. So the word "lucifer" refers not to any angel, fallen or otherwise, but to the Babylonian king of the time.
"Why do you want a monkey?"
"To teach it to smoke, duh!"
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After reading this entire thread, I forget how I even managed to a) find the thread; b) what film it relates to; or c) how I even got here; I can figure this out easily, however. The point I want to make is that I'm quite impressed that so many posters, with so many varying points of view on the issue of Lucifer = Satan, were able (with very little "nah-nah-boogey"-ing) to debate this issue. I actually learned quite a bit from this thread. Thanks!
"I'm not dead yet!"
RosieFeats
You are right on, Yoda448, that passage is often mistakenly applied to Satan the Devil but as you said in reality it refers to the king of Babylon.
Also, Satan and Devil are not names, they are titles. Nowhere in the Bible is Satan's name given, since he is spiritually dead in God's eyes, he doesn't deserve any name recognition.
Not only that but before Lucifer became equated with The Devil ( Which is more Folkloric than Biblical in origin ), a number of Christian holy men had that name , perhaps the most notable being the Sardinian-born , Italian-based Catholic Bishop Lucifer Calaritanus who staved off the Arians who challenged the doctrine of Christ coming in the flesh . Though mostly a dead sect , Arian Christianity survives in the Goth community .
lucifer was the morning star in heaven, he had dominion over earth, and i believe he was quite beautiful and god liked him the most. which is why he punished lucifer more than hes punished any other angel.
god cast him out of heaven, away from his presence(which is supposedly a punishment itself) then he threw him in hell, where its always hot. probably cause lucifers a hothead.
lucifer changed his name. god named him lucifer? so he changes his name to satan, another chance to throw it back in gods face.
i also read somewhere that he said he'd rather rule in hell than serve in heaven.
he sounds very angry, and god didnt exactly handle it well.
were told to not trust the devil, and some even go as far to hate him, but i dont think god can create something so bad that it warrants our hate. i think lucifer just went down a wrong path and theres still hope he can make amends and join his brothers in heaven.
Well , we`re talking about mythological characters here . Furthermore , the name Lucifer has a long tradition dating back way before The Bible . It means " Bearer of light " in Latin whilst Satan is Hebrew for " Accuser " or " Adversary " . Also , I suggest you look up Bishop Lucifer Calaritanus . Prior to being equated with The Devil , a number of holy men were named Lucifer .
shareLucifer is a name and Satan is a title. Lucifer is not mentioned in the Old Testament, the name appears in intertestamental writings. Satan - or The Satan, means either adversary or angel of menevolence.
shareHow could you guys have all missed the obvious biblical reference to the identity of satan! In the book of revelations, it talks about the war in heaven, and referring to satan, called him "Lucifer, that old serpent, the Devil" and later, referes to him also as satan and a dragon. What revelations is pointing out is that:
1. The serpent in the garden of Eden was Lucifers physical form. Before he became a slithering serpent after the curse, he was a dragon, God's most beautiful animal, and had legs). Its quite possible that when the old testament makes reference to the defeat of leviathan, it was referring to God's conquest of his greatest and most beautiful creation, the dragon Lucifer. He was probably created as God's special pet.
2. In spiritual form, he is Lucifer, glorius and beautiful. SO beautiful in fact, that though God refers to the greatest of human beings as worms, God Himself referred to satan as full of wisdom and intelligence, and full of glory. He must be extremely glorius, powerful and beautiful! The name practically means light bringer
3. Devil and satan means accuser. At the present age, satan remains in spiritual form before the throne of God accusing the saints for their sins and working out the legal case which would determine which humans belong to God and which belong to him
How could you guys have all missed the obvious biblical reference to the identity of satan! In the book of revelations, it talks about the war in heaven, and referring to satan, called him "Lucifer, that old serpent, the Devil" and later, referes to him also as satan and a dragon.Ah, but which translation of the Bible are you referring to? If it's a modern-day version, then it's likely a lot of names were changed or mistranslated for the sake of continuity. share
In all actuality Lucifer and Satan are not supposed to be on in the same. The confusion comes from Homers famous epic "Odyssey". Lucifer was just another fallen angel and was named after the state he fell from but stemming from Homers use of the name, it caused much confusion and these days people see Lucifer and Satan as the same. Refer to this:
"Passage 14:12 from the Book of Isaiah referred to one of the popular honorific titles of a Babylonian king; however, later interpretations of the text, and the influence of embellishments in works such as Dante's Inferno and Milton's Paradise Lost, led to the common interpretation in Christian belief that Lucifer was a poetic appellation of Satan.
Modern and late Medieval Christian thought derived from this interpretation the idea that Lucifer is a fallen angel who is Satan, the embodiment of evil and an enemy of God. In Christian literature and legend, Lucifer is generally considered to have been a prominent archangel in heaven, although Book of Ezekiel 28:14 says: "You were the anointed cherub who covers, And I placed you there." In the fully-developed theme of "The War of Heaven", Lucifer had been motivated by pride to lead a revolution against God. When the rebellion failed, Lucifer was cast out of heaven, along with a third of the heavenly host, and came to reside in the world."
As for me I always thought that Lucifer and Satan were one and the same. Yes the name means "The Morning Star" as Lucifer shone brighter than all of the angels. Story goes, when God created Adam, a being he made from dust and dirt, he ordered all the Angels to assembly and commanded them to bow down to Adam, the first of the race which would be known as man (human)which according to what God told them was his finest creation. Now Lucifer took great exception to this and summarily asked the Lord "How can a son made out of stars bow down to a son made of clay?" and he refused, to which he was abruptly cast down from Heaven. I gotta admit that doesn't seem all that fair to me but that's the story.
Now even in the Old Testatment in books such as JOB, Satan is mentioned by name, but the name Satan meant "Adversay" or "Accuser" and it's curious because if you read JOB when the Angels of God presented themselves before him in Heaven, Satan came with them also. As the example I give illustrates:
1 Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the LORD. 2 And the LORD said unto Satan, From whence comest thou? And Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.
That's a HUGE difference between what many believe is Satan today, being in Hell and staying there. You certainly wouldn't buy the Satan that is known in todays time to actually be travelling back and forth to Heaven and holding converstations with God, I bet you any amount of money you wish. In the old testament what he really was, was sort of a prosecuting attorney if you will.
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In the bible the name was just Satan. Might have been many beings, or just one. Simply means the accuser. Didn't even seem to be much of a bad guy, could have just been doing his God-Appointed-Job.
Lucifer comes from a Greek (and later Roman god)
Vesper, Hesperus, Eosphorus. Basically a male Venus-figure.
Lucifer is another name or title from Latin Lux Ferre, or Lucis Ferre, meaning "light bringer".
Most of the stories come from folk tales and a lot of the big ones come from Milton's Paradise Lost.
Lucifer wound up getting identified with Satan fairly early in Christian history. A lot of the stories of his beauty, favour and power come from the name and the Greek god it came from.
First you get different answers depending on who you ask, there are as many truths as there are ppl.
In mythology
Lucifer (Light bearer)
Satan (to overcome, the accuser, the hostile)
Samael
Beelzebub (lord of flies)
The devil
= not the same thing/being
In Christianity
Lucifer
Satan
Samael
Baalzebub
The devil
=All is the same being, representing evil.
But alas,
Isaiah 14:12
Lucas 10:18
Funny thing also the cross is not the "real" symbol of christianity, actually the cross is an norse(asar/asir) symbol a "simpler version" of Thors hammer.
I heard that the "real christian symbol" is the Ichtys, but since i'm not religious but only enjoy mythology i dont really care.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ichtys
The mythology behind Satan/Lucifer is long and has been adopted, co-opted and served as inspiration for countless other myths throughout the centuries. There are many different names in Judeo-Christian mythology that are used to describe the Devil.
Best not to dwell on it too much.
His name in Arabic is "iblees" it comes in the Koran the most updated form of Gods word and it is unchanged by mankind unlike the gospel and torah. It will remain unchanged till the day of resurrection. "satan" basically just means "devil", these are the evil jinn spirits that live on earth unseen to the human eye, however there can be good jinn spirits aswell. Muslim, Christian and Jewish Jinn do exist.
sharethose jinn, they're called grays nowadays.
share