In the bible does Gabriel really betray God and does bad things. Because in constantine and the prophecy the portray Gabriel as a backstabber.
"I'm not interested in Saturn, I said Mars."
That's a good question.
In my readings (I am NOT a Bible expert, though), I have not come across any instances where Gabriel betrayed God. Satan, of course, is mentioned, but I've never read anything about Gabriel rebelling.
"I offer you this rose...my heart, my soul, my love."
"Love?"
- Legend
I wonder then why in movies it's always Gabriel being the one that betrays god.
"I'm not interested in Saturn, I said Mars."
Personally I agree with the portrayal of Gabriel as a trickster, but that's just my opinion... ;-)
I don't believe there's any reference to Gabriel's Fall in the Bible, but apparently there is in Jewish literature. This is from Wikipedia, just to give you an idea:
"In Talmud Yoma 79a, however, it is stated that Gabriel once fell into disgrace "for not obeying a command exactly as given, and remained for a while outside the heavenly Curtain." During this 21 day period, the guardian angel of Persia, Dobiel, acted as Gabriel's proxy."
Cheers,
Saau
There is no mention of the fall of Gabriel in the bible, it was satan aka "lucifer" who was cast out of heaven for rebelling against god.
Here's more on it ->
http://www.preparingforeternity.com/sr/sr01.htm
I pointed out in another thread (apologies to anyone reading it twice) that Gabriel is a popular name for villains, from the Modesty Blaise comic strip to the film Swordfish. There is, however, as has already been mentioned, no biblical precedent for this - the archangel Gabriel appears several times as a messenger, most notably to Mary to tell her that she's going to give birth to Jesus and never does anything remotely villainous. The makers of this film obviously needed a bad guy to lead their "second rebellion", and Lucifer was already taken.
share[deleted]
Angels choose to have no choice, they aren't inherantly that way. Lucifer chose otherwise, as did Satanel (yes, I consider them different beings). They took their own way, for right or wrong, and were kicked out - not much incentive for any other angel to start having daydreams of free will.
Just my opinion and views on the matter, in any case.
Cheers,
Saau
Doesn't Lucifer mention Jesus at one point in this film? I sort of got the impression as well (correct me if I'm wrong) that the salvation of human beings, and the fact that they are now number one in God's sight, is what led the jealous angels to rebel. I'd say those are Christian rather than Jewish elements.
shareIt was my understanding that Lucifer fell because he rebeled against God because God had deemed Jesus as his highest. Lucifer, pride distorting his view and God passing him over, rebeled and made a rush for the throne. thus falling in the insuing war. its still a christian theme ofcourse but it wasnt man that made jealous angels rebel
shareJesus IS god personafied. Lucifer was\is an angel. Lucifer wanted to be on level ground with god, to be an equal. The reason for Lucifer being cast out and the war in heaven are 2 different things.
In the movie, the rebelling angels have turned from god because they're jelous of god's love for humans. They want to be gods first love again. For Lucifer is was pride.
Two wrongs don't make a left hand turn.
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Your understanding is wrong. Satan was cast out long before the time of christianity according to the bible/torah.
shareTo the original poster, I never heard or read about Gabriel betraying God and I'm Roman Catholic. The Angel Gabriel is mostly associated with being the messenger who announced to Mama Mary that she will conceive Jesus. Angel Gabriel is a very popular arch angel, next to St. Michael the Archangel. He is, most of the times, mentioned together with other arch angels like Michael the Archangel and Raphael.
Vatican is computerized now and I've read that the three or four big databases (if that's what it's called, I'm not that well-versed in computers and technology)is named after these archangels, if my memory is being accurate.
Not entirely true, angels can either listen to god or not, that is their only choice.
I have a question for you, what language do you think the bible was originally writen in?
Two wrongs don't make a left hand turn.
The Bible is meaningless to me but I have no Idea.
"I'm not interested in Saturn, I said Mars."
For religious people (specialy from judaism, christianim and islam), movies portraying Gabriel as being the one that betrays god, is A BLASPHEMY. So yeah, sometimes creativity in the movie industry is not always compatible with religious faith.. but then again, I dont think we`re watching movies to increase our faith in religion..
--peace in the middle earth, ..er east--
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I think it is because it is the most wellknown angel... beside Michael and raphael
shareThere's nothing about an angel war in the bible.
Two wrongs don't make a left hand turn.
Yes there is. In fact there are actually three distinct wars involving angels. In the Book of Revelation there is a passage that tells of a war between the Dragon and his angels and Michael and his angels. The Dragon looses and is cast down to the earth to continue his war against god by attacking humans. No one really know when in chronology this war actually happens, but there is only one war in heaven, and then there is the war of Armageddon which is the final war against God involving angels and humans. In this war fallen angels, demons and sinful humans war against the returning Messiah, his angels and the saints of God. The evil forces are defeated and all are cast into hell to await the fiunal Judgement, except the Dragon who is eventually loosed on earth again after 1000 years. Finally, at the end of the 1000 years of peace on earth there is another war led by the Dragon who has been loosed from being chained in hell. there's no mention of angels in this war except the Dragon. The antagonists appear to be fully human. They assault the holy city Jerusalem but God destroys them all and ends the war. This final war is then followed by what the Bible calls the Great White Throne Judgement and that is followed the creation of a new heavens and new earth where the funforgiven humans and fallen angels have been destroyed forever in the Lake of Fire and are no more.
shareArmageddon is a place, not an event. It's the place where the final battle is supposed to begin.
What version of the bible did you get your information from?
Two wrongs don't make a left hand turn.
I believe it's both a place AND an event - obviously.
What version should I have used?
>>It's the place where the final battle is supposed to begin.<<
Or end.
I'm just asking what version you used, as the events of the bible can change a great deal from translation to translation.
Two wrongs don't make a left hand turn.
The only detailed references to the fall,
More than just saying "the fall" and the war in heaven are found in the apocryphal Book of Enoch. It's available to read online. Before the first Varican council there were a whole lot of different books that made up the various Christian belief systems. The Holy Roman Empire decided which were in line with its idea of Christianity and made them the canon, declaring all other books non-canon and meaningless. But the stories were already ingrained in Christian beliefs and continued to be passed down independently of the Bible.
All the business about the Nephilim and the race of giants is also in Enoch. The Gospel of Thomas is also a really interesting read. Youll find the more interesting Christian stories in the apocrypha as there are more strong pagan influences from early Christians present. In fact, only a handful of angels are even named in the bible, yet there are meticulously created hierarchies, names and histories surrounding Angels. None of it in the bible.
Gabriel is an Arch Angel. One of the right hand angel to God. If I remember correctly, it was only him and Mikael who had that honor. And what I've read, they stayed loyal to God and during the Apocalypse, Gabriel's horn will blow and show who is righteous and not and Mikael's flaming sword shall take care of the sinners.
And the Angel of Death was actully not Gabriel, atleast according to my VERY VERY Christian friend.
"To the Ernest Borgnine Mobile!"
www.ibs-entetainment.com
I'm not dissagreeing with you on anything, it's just that I heard Lucifer was the closest to god. Is this wrong?
"I'm not interested in Saturn, I said Mars."
Nah. He was his most loyal servent, but then he feeled that he deserved more and started the war. Now he is in the bowels of hell, frozen, eating Judas Iskariot as well as someone else. Oh, and he's deformed now.
Atleast, once again, to my very Christian friend.
Gabriel and Mikael are those who remain.
"To the Ernest Borgnine Mobile!"
www.ibs-entetainment.com
That's not entirly true bj_arni...
Lucifer still retains his origional angelic form and brillance. It now serves as a constant reminder to him of what he lost. He can appear as a nasty beast, but this is just ment to scare. That is why he's able to decieve people so easaly...he can portray himself as an angel of light...even tho he realy isn't anymore.
The Road To Salvation Begins Tonight...Right Now - The Archangel Gabriel
ok, thanks for the info. But does he really come to people? I thought it was just a metaphore because of lust in the real world can be like he is trying to trick us.
The reason why I'm wondering is because I thought God had him frozen in the bowells of hell, unable to do anything.
"To the Ernest Borgnine Mobile!"
www.ibs-entetainment.com
No, far from it. According to the gospels, the devil appeared to Jesus in the desert and tempted Him. Not something he could do if he was frozen in the bowels of Hell.
However, I believe that a lot of the time, when people are tempted or possessed, it isn't by Satan himself, but by one of his servants. Unlike God, the devil can't be everywhere at once.
Yeah, I think it would make more sense it would be one of the servants of hell rather then Lucifer himself.
I mean, why would God let Lucifer run free and try to get his only son to hell?
"Let's take this party downstairs!"
www.ibs-entetainment.com
In the KJV of the Bible (at least) Gabriel never bretrays God. That's artistic liscense taken by the movie. Likewise in the Bible (excluding the Book of Enoch) we never see angels fall because of men; angels fall because of their own pride, not out of jealousy. But yes, it is odd that both Constantine (in the comic form and movie form) and the Prophecy chose Gabriel as their anti-hero. Though likely it's because there are only 2 or 3 named angels in the Bible, and no one will have Michael fall cause he's the one destined to fight Satan in the end of days.
shareGood point.
"Let's take this party downstairs!"
www.ibs-entetainment.com
Angels did Fall because of lust though. Isn't there a story about angels lusting after human women, and having "giant " babies called Nephilim?
And that the Nephilim began to destroy everything, including each other. And that Archangel Michael (?)
heard the humans' cry for help, and asked God to intervene. God destroyed the Nephilim.
One version of the story is that the Nephilim were enormous monsters, and were all destroyed by God.
Another version is that some of the Nephilim were beautiful beings and were NOT all destroyed by God, and still walk the Earth among us.
"Some laughed. He let them. His own heart laughed, and that was enough."
-A Christmas Carol
There is a small passage in the Bible that mentions this.
"When men began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, the sons of God saw that the daughters of men were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose. Then the LORD said, "My Spirit will not contend with man forever, for he is mortal ; his days will be a hundred and twenty years. The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of men and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown."
(Genesis 6:2 - 4, New International Version)
As far as I know, most of my fellow Christians believe that the "Sons of God" are indeed angels, and the Nephilim were the product of their coupling with human women. C. S. Lewis's book "That Hideous Strength" implies that Merlin was a product of one such coupling, hence the rumour that he was a son of the devil. The context of the passage above suggests that the Nephilim were one of the reasons why God sent the flood. The Bible leaves any other details of the Nephilim to the reader's imagination, including the question of whether they were good or evil - although personally I believe that any sentient creature has free will and therefore the ability to choose between right and wrong.
It's all in the Book of Enoch.
shareI mean, why would God let Lucifer run free and try to get his only son to hell?
In the book of Job, God and Satan appear to be buddies who like to sit around kvetching and having bets to see how poor Job will react to being hideously tortured ... neither of them come across as nice guys.
But you ARE Blanche ... and I AM.
Tell your friend they got bought by Dante Alighieri's epic called the Divine Comedy, notably the first part called the Inferno. It's more or less an allorgy and not considered 'divine' by the Roman Catholic church and I doubt by other Christians as well due to the fact the heavy Pagan mythology mixed into the work.
shareYeah, I know about the Divine Comedy. My friend owns it.
I haven't read all of it, do Gabriel and Mikael get mentioned in it?
"I will make my arrows drunk with blood and my sword shall devour flesh"
www.ibs-entertainment.com
The film is about an EXTRA BOOK IN THE BIBLE that refers to a "war in Heaven." In other words - it's completely fictional. The film makers ADDED to the Bible. They didn't take events from it.
shareIsn't Raphael mentioned along with Gabriel and Michael?
I know that also there are 4 archangels that are always put over the door, in stained glass, of many churches: Michael, Gabriel, Uriel, and Raphael.
"That's bearing false witness, my friend."
-The Darkling
I love Uriel. Felt really bad for him.
"Let's take this party downstairs!"
www.ibs-entetainment.com
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If you look outside the Bible to the other contemporary works you'll see that there is literature to imply that Gabriel did disobey God and was temporarily cast out of Heaven because of it. It all just depends on what you believe. Keep in mind too that the Bible was greatly shortened from its original version, so there are many things missing or many references to things that are no longer there. I cite, for example, the Nephilim - which the Bible mentions very briefly about three times, but for which there is a great deal of information in books such as Enoch 2 and the Book of Giants.
And, incidentally, it wasn't Lucifer (the "Light-Bearer", as his name translates) who was the Accuser, that was Satan (which is what his name directly translates to). And before you say anything, no, they're not the same person. In fact there's only one reference to Lucifer rebelling in the Bible and it is very vague. Most of what people think they know about the Fall comes from books of fiction like Milton's 'Paradise Lost'.
[deleted]
Hi McKenzie,
I know there's no reference to Gabriel falling in the Bible, that's why I said "if you look outside the Bible" ;-) I've seen references to it in other literature, although it's been quite some time since seriously researching it so I can't find my sources now.
And the Enoch thing was specifically about the Nephilim and there being other references regarding fallen Angels out there, I didn't mean that as anything specifically to do with Gabriel.
I'll have to check out that book you mention, thanks for recommending it.
Cheers,
Saau
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No Gabriel never betrays god in the bible. He and Michael are Archangels. Michael leads the armies of God against Satan/Lucifer when he rebels against god because he was passed up to be the one to save humanity. Michael kicks Satan and his armies ass and they get sent from heaven down to earth and hell where they continue the war against god and now against mankind. Gabriel is most often shown as gods messenger, telling Mary about how she was gonna give birth to Jesus and Mary's cousin (forgetting name) about how she was gonna give birth to john the baptist. This is just another movie where the writers and directors had no idea what they were talking about and this is why people dont understand christianity and don't like it cause every year u have some anti-chrisitanity movie like this.
- HEYY. I LIKE FORREST GUMP. ALTHO TITANIK IZ OVERRATED I DONT BELIEV WE HAV THE PUBLIK 2 BLAME BUT RATHER THE YUNG BOYZ HU WENT TO SEE STARWARZ MAKN IT THE MOST SUKSESFUL TRILOJIEZ UV ALL TIME JUZ 2 GRO UP 2 B FAT NERDZ AND SAY 'DUDE. DONT TEL ME YU STILL SPEND MONEY ON MOVIEZ.' AND GIV THEIR FAVRATE MOVIEZ BAD RATINGZ ENKORAJING MEDIA 2 MAKE MOR MOVIEZ LIKE TITANIK SOUL PLANE AND WHO'S YOURE CADDY BKUZ. PEPUL TEL THE MEDIA WAT THEY LIKE THRU VOTING WITH THEIR WALETS. THE MEDIA DUZNT GIV A *beep* ABOUT YUR ONLINE RATINGZ YU *beep* *beep*
You've taken hooked on phonics to a new level.
Best quote ever
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In "The Prophecy", the morgue director shows Thomas a Bible carried by the dead bad angel. Thomas is intrigued by the fact that this copy of the Bible is very old, hand written, and includes the 23rd chapter of the Book of Revelation. In this copy of the Bible, Gabriel is not one of the good hermaphrodites.
I'm living proof that a mind is a terrible thing.