MovieChat Forums > Higher Learning (1995) Discussion > We need "degrees" for rape:

We need "degrees" for rape:

posted 10 years ago by creatorof2002
16 replies | jump to latest

Call me an insensitive male chovinist pig if you want but I think rape needs "degrees".

MURDER has them, you can only get the death penalty for FIRST degree murder, not for 2nd degree murder or manslaughter (which is basically a lower degree of murder) and even for manslaughter you have voluntary and involuntary.

For theft you have Grand Theft, petty theft and grand larceny.

Well rape needs degrees too.

A lot of angry feminists and tough of crime zealots make blanket proclamations like calling for the death penalty for rape or automatic life sentences even castration.

But let's be real. A scandal like what happened to Mike Tyson back in 1991 where 2 people have sex and argue about whether or not it is consensual or someone has sex while drunk then claims they were too drunk to give consent just is NOT the same thing as a predatory or violent rape where an attack is obvious. I actually DO approve of the extremely severe punishments listed above for especially heinous rapes, but not all rapes.

That guy who did not pull out fast enough was NOT the same thing as some of the real sickos out there who REALLY DO deserve to have their genitals cut off.

Even in the totally contrived fictional world of this movie all that happened to the "rapist" was the embarrassment of facing a bunch of angry people yelling at him, he never got prosecuted or expelled. Those angry feminists were carrying signs saying DEAD MEN DON'T RAPE which is a roundabout way of saying this guy should have gotten the death penalty.

So does that mean ALL murderers get the death penalty? So you give someone who commits involuntary manslaughter the same death penalty you would give a serial killer?

Is a woman guilty of rape if she is on top and does not get off of the guy as fast as he would want?

[–] Tadster91 10 years ago

What happened in the movie was obviously rape, she was screaming no at the top of her lungs and fought against him and he pushed her down. And to your last question:

"Is a woman guilty of rape if she is on top and does not get off of the guy as fast as he would want?"

Um...YES. Do you not know the definitions of rape and consent?

[–] creatorof2002 10 years ago

Even if it WAS rape it STILL should not legally be treated AS BADLY as other forms of rape like gang rape or other forms of attack. 2nd degree murder is still MURDER but it is NOT punished as harshly as 1st Degree murder even though they are both forms of murder.

So why can't rape have degrees?

Also, why did the writer of this movie let him get away with it then? Most movie goers want to see bad people get their commupance but the writer of this movie CHOSE to allow the character to get away with it (legally that is he did suffer public humiliation). Was it one of those "life is not always fair" kind of plots?

The guy was obviously enjoying the sex and did not want it to end but that does NOT mean he is the kind of person who would actually attack someone, tear their clothes off, beat them into submission etc, he was not a "predator" in that sense, he was not a high risk sex offender (in my opinion). Plus maybe he was SURPRISED that she suddenly changed her mind so fast and it took him a few seconds to realize what was happening. If he had held her down a few minutes I might agree more with you but I think it was only a few seconds.

I think screwing someone then suddenly and randomly doing a full 180 and freaking out like that is pretty strange. The "victim" here being that she was already consenting to the sex before her sudden "180" is much more prone to victim blaming than a rape victim in other circumstances. In fact if a trial ever did happen it would work in the guy's favor if she admitted the sex was consensual up to that point. Even if he got convicted he might be allowed to plea bargain to a lower level crime like indecent assault and the judge might give him a much shorter jail sentence than most other types of rapist.

That guy was not a monster just a horny young man (and a wimp, I am way stronger than him and he is lucky it was not my sister he was with, I might have beaten the tar out of him)

[–] gabby_bm 10 years ago

I definitely see it as rape, but I agree there should be varying degrees to differentiate between rapes that are predatory and rapes that are hormonal and stupid. they are both aggressive, but predatory rapes seek to victimize whereas hormonal rapes are self-centered and ultimately thoughtless with regards to the victim.

I'm not sure if i'd be comfortable determining the difference in sentencing, however.

I don’t need you to tell me how good my coffee is.. 
.

[–] cdz6969 10 years ago

When I first saw this movie in HS, I was like WTF? How is that Rape??

She was screaming at first because he wasn't using a Condom.. Then because he was about to bust without using one.. she ran off and cried rape..

But as an adult, especially a male adult, you have to realize that if a woman says no or stop for anything, you stop. No matter what it is or how far you're already into it.

Also for this case, that guy was an idiot. She was letting him hit it. He could have stopped to go get one, and then continued. Even if there were none around, he could have just let her give him head and / or bust one on her body.

Jesus would support Universal Health Care

[–] thelordtantalus 10 years ago

I'll keep it short. That was rape, clear as day. Next there are already varying degrees to sexual assault. The reason most people don't go to the cops is that it becomes a he said/she said situation where only those in the room know what happens. Rape trials aren't easy even if there has been multiple victims. Most places have varying degrees of gradation for sexual assault. Look up your own local statues. But if he ended up in jail and wouldn't care. Bottom line would you trust a guy like this around females you know if you learned this about him?

Being absent minded or foolish doesn't give anyone license to violate you.
It's like saying I wouldn't beat you up if you could defend yourself

[–] 10 years ago

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[–] joana-pedroso15 9 years ago

A rape is a rape. In the movie she told him to stop and put a condom he could stop but he didn't. If he was a dog I could understand because dogs act by instinct but he is (at least looks like) a human, and humans have the ability to see right from wrong. I would never put myself in the situation the girl put herself I would never go out and drink with "friends" I don't trust and guys I barely know (actually I don't drink because I consider that poison and like to be in control of myself) because I know a large porportion of men are misogynist pigs who only think about sex and their lives go around it, they do anything to have it as many times as they like to (they tend to focus to much on quantity and little on quality even though they think they always are the best...right...) including getting a girl drunk (to some it doesn't even matter if the girl is attractive or not) and having sex with some sort of unconscious zombie (right cuz that must be really good)

And to the *beep* who says girls want to be secretly raped, if you'd rape me, I'd put you behind bars not thank you for helping me accomplish a sexual fantasy. Sexual fantasies are private things and I'd never share mine with such a disgusting individual. If it were up to me though, I'd just carry a gun around and just shoot anyone who tried to raped on spot instead of going through the humilitiating process of going to a police station (full of male cops) press charges having everyone doubting my word or saying it was my fault for wearing provokative clothes... All the humiliation could be easily avoided if a girl could carry a gun and just shoot the guy right in the balls. That would solve things.

[–] 9 years ago

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[–] joana-pedroso15 9 years ago

Excuse me, but I wear the clothes I wear because I like the way it looks on me, not because I am thinking about what guys may think about it. In fact, in arab countries where women wear burka and only the eyes can be seen you'll find men who say they are being provokative.

The lesson taken is no matter what clothes you wear (even if it is a burka) men will always find it an excuse to rape a woman, which means it's not ever the woman's fault because if she wore another thing another guy would also think it was an invitation.

So if you rape a woman don't try to find excuses to justify it, it's your own fault so face the consequences of you actions (which happens to be a crime). That's what it means to be a grown up human being.

As to the statement that the number one sex fantasy of women is to be raped by a stranger I think you are delusional. It's a fantasy SOME women have and usually they imagine it as a role play situation with their partner, where the partner may pretend to be raping her...in any case, it's a consenting relationship between a woman and some man she trusts, not a random stranger.

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[–] joana-pedroso15 9 years ago

I am more and more conviced that you are troll. Either that or you are trying to shock people, so far without success.

[–] 9 years ago

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[–] gabby_bm 9 years ago

But, as you say, it IS a fantasy. The reality of it is quite different. We fantasize about flying cars too, but the reality of it would be quite different too.

I don’t need you to tell me how good my coffee is.. 
.

[–] scubadivingjr 9 years ago

it's rape cause the feminist has decided that it is so. but very clear analysis here i like it