MovieChat Forums > Dead Presidents (1995) Discussion > Why do so many people hate on this movie...

Why do so many people hate on this movie??

posted 15 years ago by heatheringly
28 replies | jump to latest

Ok. Let me start off by saying that I am a white female. I grew up in a poor, working-class, multicultural neighborhood. My mother was a drug-addicted single parent, struggling to get by to support both my brother and myself until she took her own life when I was 15. I've seen a lot...I've been through a lot...However, one thing I honestly can attest to is that I have absolutely no idea of what it is like to be culturally oppressed.

In my opinion, this movie epitomizes the struggles that people of color experience in this country. The statistics speak the truth: http://www.shadowstats.com/article/employment. Black males -- in particular -- are less likely to obtain positions of power, despite education and training (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/07/03/AR2009070302498.html; http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0DXK/is_18_17/ai_67582269/); are less likely to make equitable salaries, even when they do hold jobs of authority (http://www.bls.gov/bls/fesacp2101703.pdf; http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-16864521.html) and, are more likely to serve extended periods of time in prison for crimes of a punishable nature similar to those committed by other races
(http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/prisons.htm).

Before anyone bashes me here, by the way, no -- I am not a "troll." I am simply stating the facts.

All that said, I cannot (for the life of me) understand why this movie is so underrated. Anyone who has an intelligent and open-minded opinion of the matter is, of course, free to comment.

________________________________________________________________________________
Beautiful quilts are made from rags. -- Chinese Proverb

[–] Dduw-Bendithia 15 years ago

First off Im sorry to hear about your background.

Second, I ahvent seen any bad comments about this film so far, been all good (alltough I havent check this forum too see what people think off it).
I really enjoyed the film, and I dont think its underated, its just that its not a well known film, heck I only watched it because Freddy Rodriguz is in it.

I thought it was a brillent well made film al togther!

And if people call you a troll ,thier pathetic!

Try drinking bleach, its fun?

[–] 15 years ago

[deleted]

[–] PCloud76 15 years ago

The movie doesn't execute. Plain and simple. The first hour or so was great, but then you get to the heist part, and it just goes downhill. In my opinion a heist didn't need to be in this movie, it wasn't that kind of movie, and it didn't hint to be that kind of movie unless you look at the title.

[–] HotddDiva 14 years ago

The film was loosely based on a real heist thus it had to be in the movie.
Dead Presidents is based partly on the real life
experiences of Haywood T. Kirkland, whose true
story was detailed in the book Bloods: An Oral
History of the Vietnam War by Black Veterans
by Wallace Terry. Certain characters from the
film are based on real acquaintances of Kirkland,
who served time in prison after committing
robbery in facepaint.[2] Haywood eventually
changed his name to Ari Sesu Merretazon and
was released from prison for good behavior and
contributing to the prison community.

[–] Mandingo609 11 years ago

I'm guessin they feel some kind of way about a great film featuring a majority black cast holding it's own without white actors. They use words like ' It doesn't Execute '.

[–] mstheroff 11 years ago

"I'm guessin they feel some kind of way about a great film featuring a majority black cast holding it's own without white actors. They use words like ' It doesn't Execute '."

Really, Reverend Sharpton? That's what's held the film back? Maybe next time you'll apply a little more Roger Ebert and save the nonsense for Daily Kos or Salon. They love hearing people whine.

[–] aaroon_yoobie 10 years ago

I'm guessin they feel some kind of way about a great film featuring a majority black cast holding it's own without white actors. They use words like ' It doesn't Execute '.
---

while i think this movie is underrated not a masterpiece i believe you are right this would easily be around 7.5 if it were cast jeremy renner for example and were more white oriented like with irish urban crimesters or italians etc.

[–] Deniro68 15 years ago

A few reasons why I suspect Dead Presidents has not gotten the respect it truly deserves.

1: Timing of release. It came out in October 1995, same week of the OJ verdict. Plus the same day it was released, there were 5 or 6 other movies released. DP kinda got lost in the shuffle.

2: Trying to follow-up a masterpiece. 90% of the people who saw Menace II Society saw it as a masterpiece. In this regard, the Hugheses kinda fell into the same trap that John Singleton did after Boyz N The Hood. Both started out with debuts that cut to the bone emotionally and did so in such a way that no follow-up, no matter how well done it may be, could quite reach that level.

3: The film's shameful mismarketing. This was the main flaw. The film was sold as primarily being a crime film and being about the heist. When (SPOILER WARNING) the heist doesn't actually occur until the last half-hour of the movie.

I also suspect that the mismarketing led some people to come and expect a heist film with a happy ending for a few of the characters at least. Instead they end up with (SPOILER) three of the major characters dead and the other three off to serve major prison terms (END SPOILER). I suspect some people went in expecting a purely entertaining heist film along the lines of what Guy Ritchie would do and were upset and disappointed by the hard gritty realism they received.

Overall, I liked Dead Presidents enough that I own it on DVD. When I saw it originally back in 1996, I was familiar with the Hughes Brothers thanks to Menace so I kinda had some idea of what to expect. Sell the film as a heist film and you're going to get that crowd and that crowd's gonna come away disappointed. Sell it as a gritty coming of age urban drama (NOT A HOOD MOVIE) and you'll draw in people who know how to appreciate it for what it is.

[–] SteelKeez 14 years ago

@deniro well said,right on the money

The game done changed....Game's the same,just got more fierce..

[–] 14 years ago

[deleted]

[–] newhavencoliseum 13 years ago

Yes, well said. Dead Presidents is a very good movie that for some reason does not quite receive the accolades it deserves. The Lincoln, Kirby's place, the neighborhood, the Vietnam scenes, etc, are all well done, as were Hughes Brothers films of this time period.

[–] desifir667 13 years ago

what

[–] 13 years ago

[deleted]

[–] tmhayes83 9 years ago

I think you hit it on the head with number 3. When I saw previews for this film, I was excited to go see another bank heist movie. I was prepared for a close group of friends to go against society and all that entails. I was not going to see a thought provoking, character driven, emotional roller coaster. For all that it was, it was great. Unfortunately someone though it a bright idea to concentrate on promoting only about the last 20 minutes of the movie. I compare it to what happened with The Cable Guy starring Jim Carrey. It was promoted as something it wasn't (another zaney comedy) instead of what it really was (a dark comedy). So when people went to go see Dead Presidents, they were hoping for an action packed heist film. When it wasn't that, they said it was bad. And as a heist film they are correct. If they were going to see it as the amazing vietnam drama, then it would have been better received (at least I believe it would've).

[–] Corpus_Vile 13 years ago

I think it's the Hughes brothers best film by far and it is indeed underrated.

"Hey, look at that! She's not crazy, she's being chased by a cheetah!"

[–] Trist805 13 years ago

I just watched it for about the fifth time ever, and it seems to get better each time. Every scene is shot beautifully, and has it's place in the movie. Chris Tucker and Larenz Tate are very likeable in it. I agree with the others that the heist was kind of misleading for the movie, but I think this movie takes a few views to really appreciate.

[–] emilforeal 11 years ago

Hey Heather,

I know am I years late to this convo but please, excuse my tardiness... I am a black male, and I been saying this for years, but of course since I am black male people think I am being self serving. Love you thoughts and your post about the movie, I agree with both. Your sincere concern for people other than yourself shows you have such a big heart, I love it, Bless you!

[–] Obi_Bon_Kenjovi 11 years ago

Heather, you sound like a guilt ridden white liberal and you have my sympathy. By the way, you obviously ARE culturally oppressed judging by your apologetic statements you felt you needed to make before you even began to state your opinion. Get a spine.

...of all the arts, for us the cinema is the most important. - Vladimir Lenin

[–] mstheroff 11 years ago

"However, one thing I honestly can attest to is that I have absolutely no idea of what it is like to be culturally oppressed."

Well, you have been, but you're fortunate enough not to know it. That's great, because you won't see it as an impediment in life. No one comes from a background like that and isn't scathed by society in some way.

I agree with the poster that suggested the timing of release and advertising was horrible. Companies screw up like that all the time--Disney could have made several million extra if they'd only added the words "Warlord of Mars" on the title of John Carter. Who knows what genius was behind fumbling the marketing? I don't think Dead Presidents is all that underrated, so much as unknown. It seems that anyone that has had the chance to see it thinks very highly of it, as they should. It's a powerful, well-made film.

About your stats, sometimes I wonder how much those are created by life imitating art in a culture that seems to extol violence and crime in the black community, as opposed to the virtues therein. It isn't as bad as it used to be, but it was almost standard operating procedure in Hollywood from the late 80s to mid/late 90s. There are a lot of black actors and directors working against that, though, and we're seeing movies that reflect the reality of average people a bit more often.

[–] Bullzing 10 years ago

This is a movie with a great story but mediocre execution of it.. I think the imdb rating is perfect..

[–] Milkdoesabodygood 10 years ago

The movie HITS a RAW nerve with people in regards to Vietnam, black issues and inner city issues as well, it just hit too many nerves, by the way I gave this movie, 10 stars! Fcking A yo!

Spoiler alert for them spoil sports out there! Y'all like spoiled milk, stop crying over it!

[–] JewelChris 9 years ago

This movie is sooo good and I agree 100%. Most people can not and do not want to empathize with black Americans, let alone black veterans. Without spoiling it, listen to what the main character says at the end about all he's done for his country... all the *beep* that veterans went through, let alone being a veteran and black, coming home to nothing.... (don't get me wrong, he does deserve the ending...)

This country has done a lot of stuff that most people are ignorant to. They only want to see the good and not the bad. This movie had a lot of harsh truths and reality to it...this film in a way shows poc struggling, and then "fighting back" in a way... a scary thought for some.

I 1000% agree with what another person said, if this were about Italians, it would have done well... I don't understand it, honestly, if it's not some minstrel type or dumb ish like madea, white people don't want to see it. It's like we and everyone else are supposed to know about Friends and Schindlers List and The Town, and aaaaaalllll these movies where that cast is 80% white, where most of the movies in Hollywood are 100% white.

But have a movie with a 80-100% black cast (not about Slavery and not a stupid comedy) and all of a sudden it's a "black film" and is marketed as such. Like only black people can see it. All the movies I show my non-poc friends they enjoy. And they are like, Wow, I can't believe I haven't seen that before, can I borrow it?" And the movie came out when we were growing up and I'm like "???" lol.

Same thing happened with Beyond the Lights. A Great movie but the two leads were black....when I went to see it nobody was in there. I even saw when there was a love scene some people of another race were squirming. It's like, people aren't comfortable seeing us on screen, doing love scenes, doing serious stuff, doing normal stuff, doing stuff "just like they do", humanizing stuff...

Another example: remember when EVERYONE, of all races, went to see The Best Man 2 , Best Man Holiday? When a lot of non-poc/non blacks had not even seen the first one, The Best Man. And the news and the internet, etc. made such a BIG deal about how the movie was doing so well. Like it was #1 for how many weeks in a row, and I guess it was really unexpected... And it's like, hello, we are people just like you! We do the same ish you do. It's a movie, with good characters, period. Them being black adds to it, and IS important, but, they didn't have to be black and it would still be a good movie. Like, it is a black movie, but it's not justa black movie...anyone can see it...

It's like... sigh I don't want to say it's racism, because some of these people aren't racist. It's close to indifference but not quite. there really isn't a word for what I'm trying to express, if anyone can think of one, let me know... it's like people are conditioned a certain way. Not all but some. And I meant no offense to anyone, this is just how I see it...

But yeah, definitely there being an almost all blk cast had something to do with it not being as successful and people just not going to see it, or not even knowing it exists. This movie is a 10 from me. I love heist films period, this is in my top 5.
 I finally made a signature!!!!

[–] dutchman-19 9 years ago

Dead Presidents is one of my favorite movies, I gave it a 10 rating...everything about it was done to perfection, the performances, the direction, the cinematography, score and soundtrack...should have won Oscars...I am a white guy, definitely not a racist but definitely not a PC liberal

[–] iancontardi 8 years ago

I'm white and I voted for trump but even I am inclined to say I can relate to this movie and that this movie is definitely underrated to the point I'd even say it's a hidden gem waiting to be rediscovered again.
The only part that was off-putting to me was the black panther side storyline. But even this film doesn't make me feel too unrelated to it because even at one point Kirby states something about how he doesn't want those crazy revolutionary *beep* involved in the heist. The movie also captures the horror and brutalness of war so well and how it can affect different men differently. Skip turning to drugs, Anthony burying it all, cleon turning to god. Each time I watch this movie I find it to be a better film then what I thought it was before. Last night I watched it again for the first time in like 6 years and the scene where skip and Anthony are talking having a beer in vietbam and past walks the young Vietnamese boy who looks like he's going to be a future solider and about to experience the horrors of war himself but he's so innocent and Anthony just freezes up...Ya that's an intense scene I never noticed before.
Anyways just a great under appreciated movie IMO.

[–] emilforeal 9 years ago

bump

[–] ThaJeanniesis 8 years ago

i was a young girl when this movie came out and all i remember was people braggin about it and dressing up as them on Halloween. didn't realize it got so much hate. i always loved this movie and its one of my favorites. but what i do know is that it doesn't get the recognition is deserves. it was like the hot topic for movies for 1 or 2 years then it faded away as if it was never made. people forget all about it. that part i do know for sure.