MovieChat Forums > Crimson Tide (1995) Discussion > What does this have to do with the red s...

What does this have to do with the red scare?

posted 12 years ago by princessstitch
5 replies | jump to latest

I had never even heard of this movie before today, and for a class I have to identify this movie as a cultural reference to the red scare. I'm going to try to look it up, but I thought I'd post here as well.

you can't just go to pigfarts. it's on mars!

[–] Harold_of_Whoa 12 years ago

You have a really, really easy assignment.

Nothing.

I suppose, if you are a really good BS-er, you could try to extrapolate some sort of old-school vs. new-school conflict in the film that is reflective of one man shaped by the McCarthy Era fear of communism during his formative years squaring off against a new generation officer educated in leftist Ivy League halls, but to make it work you will have to assume a ton of facts not in evidence anywhere on screen.

"Morbius, something is approaching from the southwest. It is now quite close."

[–] schumithecat 12 years ago

the red scare (fear of subversive or overt communist attack) is why the US developed weapons systems like the sub, our of a fear that the communists would attack first and we would be left with limited retaliation capability. it is also why the US and Russia have massive nuclear arsenals in the first place (the film's plot involves a renegade group getting access to some missiles and threatening to use them).

[–] Harold_of_Whoa 12 years ago

the red scare (fear of subversive or overt communist attack) is why the US developed weapons systems like the sub, our of a fear that the communists would attack first and we would be left with limited retaliation capability. it is also why the US and Russia have massive nuclear arsenals in the first place (the film's plot involves a renegade group getting access to some missiles and threatening to use them).

I think it takes either a very expansive definition of "Red Scare" or a very naive understanding of the Cold War to attribute all development of strategic arsenals on both sides to the notion of "Red Scare." Fear of being attacked by a geopolitical rival and preparing accordingly has been an element of human affairs for millennia.

Most references to the Red Scare of the '50s deal with the internal aspects - spies, infiltrators, and general conspiracy theories about Communist plots and influence. You know, unbalancing our precious bodily fluids. The House Un-American Activities Committee is what I think of as the quintessential manifestation of the Post-war Red Scare.

When you say fear of overt communist attack is a part of the Red Scare, I don't disagree, but I think of that aspect as being mostly manifested in US government communications with the public, and media in general, about the danger of imminent attack and the necessity to prepare on the home front. Even at that, I feel like it might be stretching the point of Red Scare to lump a reasonable concern over the possibility of nuclear attack under that umbrella.

"Morbius, something is approaching from the southwest. It is now quite close."

[–] schumithecat 12 years ago

I think you are focusing on McCarthyism, which was part of but not the entirety of the Red Scare (wasn't it more commonly called Red Menace? I dunno, I wasn't born until late '69). I don't have a naive understanding of the Cold War. My Dad was one of the troops who was stationed on the DMZ in S. Korea and within the Fulda Gap during the Cold War, ground zero if WW3 had ever started. He also was stationed at air defense sites waiting for Soviet bombers on the North Sea...and on a hilltop in Malibu. All that continued decades after the commies hiding behind every lamppost thing went away, and it largely kept up until the Soviet Union collapsed. No nations historically spent so much money on the military in an extended period of peacetime.

[–] Harold_of_Whoa 12 years ago

I think you are focusing on McCarthyism, which was part of but not the entirety of the Red Scare

So, I looked up a few internet sources about the Red Scare (technically what we are talking about is the Second Red Scare, the First being in the 1910s and 1920s.) At least one source indicated that McCarthyism and Red Scare are synonymous, and the others indicated a close correlation.

None of the sources I reviewed cited the Red Scare as causal for strategic weapons development, buildup, or deployment, although that doesn't mean that there was no connection at all.

There are varying date ranges given for the Red Scare, but the latest end date I saw was 1960. As you have stated, Cold War buildup of strategic and conventional forces continued, and even accelerated well after that time frame.

I stand by the two previous posts.

To me, the entire concept of a Red Scare connotes a certain level of irrationality. This kind irrationality is not, I contend, a prerequisite for maintaining a robust and capable military, and mainstream historians do not seem to define Cold War defense policy as a direct, or even indirect result of the Red Scare. (I will readily confess to being too lazy to spend a lot of time going deeply into research on the subject; my analysis is pretty superficial.)

I would be curious what the outcome with the OP and his(her) assignment might have been, but I imagine that poster is long gone, never to return.

"Morbius, something is approaching from the southwest. It is now quite close."