Is everyone on the sub in typically in the "fire brigade", or is it an additional qualification that only certain members have? For example, we see that Hunter is a firefighter in this scene. While I am sure that everyone has a designated position in case of fire on the boat, what is the training like for the front line responders?
I know a bit about firefighting on land, but not on Naval vessels.
EVERYONE, and I mean absolutely everyone is qualified in at the least Basic Shipboard Firefighting.
This is even more important on a Submarine where you have to be qualified in everyone else's job as well.
Now only certain individuals are actually on the "flying squad" or have Designated stations as part of a Fire hose team or DC team, but anyone is able to augment these positions as casualties take place.
I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!
The word “qualified” can mean different things to different people, but it has a specific meaning on a submarine. I’d like to discuss this from the standpoint of my own experience as an Electronics Technician/Reactor Operator back in the mid 1970’s on the USS Skipjack, SSN-585. Ordinarily I wouldn’t comment like this, especially as this will probably turn into a lengthy writing chore. But I’ll do it for you because I’ve always enjoyed our exchanges on these boards and I have a lot of respect for your extensive knowledge of a wide range of military and non-military topics.
When I was on the Skipjack I had heard these stories about submarine sailors being able to do any job on the boat. In fact on one occasion when our commanding officer was speaking to the whole crew he said that maybe this was true back in the days of the S Boats and earlier, but that submarines had moved far beyond that simple level of technology.
The enlisted submarine crew was divided into two main groups—the nuclear power trained personnel and the non-nuclear guys. The Skipjack, as a fast attack submarine, had five watertight compartments. Going from forward to aft they were the Torpedo Room, Operations Compartment, the Reactor Compartment, the Auxiliary Machinery Space, and the Engine Room. The three aft compartments were the realm of the nuclear people and the non-nuc’s or forward guys practically never set foot in that area. I would have said "absolutely never" but the forward Machinists Mates or Auxiliary Men did have some equipment back there that they had to maintain, such as the Drain Pump and the 400 pound air system.
But aside from little things like that the forward guys stood watches and worked in the two forward compartments and the Nuc’s stood watches and worked in the three aft compartments, called Engineering Spaces.
Everyone had to go through a qualification process, although different crewmen had different qualification paths, depending on what rate they were in. There was a set of “qual cards” for each duty station or position that people were required to qualify on. A qual card being a form that listed assignments that had to be completed, tasks and procedures that had to be performed, examinations that had to be passed, all completed and signed off on before the individual would be certified as ready to be assigned on the watch bill to that station. Some of these qual cards were quite simple and could be completed in short order. But most were far more involved and a considerable amount of training was needed before the qual card could be completed. Being “qualified” (on a station) meant that the person had completed the qual card for that station. That was the meaning of the word on a submarine.
The control center of Engineering was the Maneuvering Room or Maneuvering which was located in the Engine Room. In Maneuvering were three control panels which were all manned when the ship was underway. They were the Steam Propulsion Control Panel (SPCP) manned by the Throttleman, the Reactor Plant Control Panel (RPCP) manned by the Reactor Operator (RO), and the Electric Plant Control Panel (EPCP) manned by the Electrical Operator (EO). In addition there was a seat located behind the EPCP that was occupied by the Engineering Officer of the Watch (EOOW). The EOOW was in charge, but if anything happened to incapacitate him the RO had to take charge of Maneuvering until another EOOW trained officer could get back there. Which wouldn’t take very long.
When we were in port with the reactor shut down, and the ship was plugged into shore power for our electrical there were only two people standing watch in Maneuvering. The Shutdown Maneuvering Area Watch (SMAW) sat at the RPCP and the Shutdown Electrical Operator (SEO) sat at the EPCP. There would also be an Engineering Watch Supervisor (EWS) who was usually a chief petty officer, although it could be a first class petty officer. The EWS was not tied to Maneuvering as he also had duties throughout Engineering, but when he was in Maneuvering he would sit in the EOOW seat.
As a Reactor Operator I had to qualify on a number of stations in Engineering, some of which I would not actually be assigned to. These included Control Point Entry Watch (CPEW), Auxiliary Machinery Space Upper Level (AMSUL) SPCP, EPCP, RPCP, SEO, and SMAW. I had qual cards for each of these stations that I had to complete. In actual underway conditions I would not be assigned to the SPCP or the EPCP, but I had to qualify on them because as an RO I might have to take charge of Maneuvering if something happened to the EOOW.
By contrast the Electrical Operators had to qualify on the SPCP and of course the EPCP, but not the RPCP, as they would never be in control of that panel. The nuclear trained Machinist Mates also had their stations where they had to qualify but they didn’t do qual cards on RO and EO stations and we didn’t do qual cards on their stations.
The forward guys also had their own qualifications to complete, but they never did qual cards or in any way trained on the various duty stations back in Engineering. But it didn’t work that way in reverse, and we Nuc’s did have to do qual cards on some of their stations.
It went back to something that came long before the development of nuclear power systems for submarines, and that was the requirement that submarine sailors qualify on the submarine and thus earn their silver (for enlisted) or gold (for officers) dolphins (the insignia of the submarine service) and the right to wear them. Everyone had traditionally been required to complete this qualification which included qualifying on certain duty stations up forward which sub sailors would need to man. When nuclear power came along, and with it a separate category of sub sailors who were there to man the nuclear stations and not the traditional forward stations, it didn’t change the fact that they too had to do ship quals, which included qualifying on those forward stations.
So in the process of doing ship quals I had to complete qual cards on three forward stations. These being Topside Watch, Helmsman/Planesman, and one other that I’ve forgotten what it was exactly.
However although I turned in fully signed off sets of qual cards for these positions I didn’t really “qualify” on them in the sense of actually becoming proficient in doing them. We Nuc’s just got the most cursory of training in these areas and then we were signed off on them. Because everyone understood there wasn’t any need for us to really qualify on these positions as they had nothing to do with our actual responsibilities. That was true for those three duty stations, but when it came to the overall qual card for submarine qualification, and silver dolphins, No we most certainly did not get a free pass on that.
As far as submarine sailors doing a job, everyone had to complete quals on his particular stations, and nobody was allowed under any circumstances to man that position until he had.
In another sense, each man had a job that was related to his rate. Torpedo Men worked with the torpedos and they weren’t expected to know how to operate the Radio Men’s equipment, or plot navigational data like a Quartermaster. And vice versa. The backup factor was not that everyone could do anyone else’s job. It was that for each job there were several highly trained and qualified (that word again) men who could do that job, and they were never far away and so could get there very quickly if needed.
And yes, there were things that everyone had to be trained in and had to know, and were certain to be regularly drilled on. Including fire and damage control.
There were only two jobs on the Skipjack that only had one man of that rate assigned to the crew to do that job. They were Hospital Corpsman and Yeoman. And it might also have included the Storekeeper, but I can’t recall after all these years if we only had one or if there were more. The Hospital Corpsman was our entire medical department and if it ever came down to this in an emergency situation he had the training to put a man on the wardroom table and perform minor surgery. Nobody else on board could have done that. And the Yeoman ran the office. Back in those pre-computer days a lot of people had never learned their way around a typewriter keyboard. I expect most of the guys on the Skipjack didn’t know how to type.
Needless to say, when it came to those two positions neither one of those guys were kids just out of A School. They had both been in the Navy for years, had advanced to senior enlisted rates and had demonstrated that they were thoroughly proficient in their rate.
I hope you’ll find this information useful as a lot of time and effort went into writing it. In the vast range of military knowledge you’re way ahead of me, but I’d like to think I’ve supplemented to a small extent your array of information.
I was referring more towards "earning your Dolphins" but great post. As much as I discuss Military Subs, I was a Skimmer guy myself. (or "Target" as you say) Great to hear from those who know more.
I knew when I wrote it that my "everyone qualifies in everyone else's job" was over simplified... but I was writing for the sake of the Landlubber. LOL.
I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!
Okay, I checked it again. So there's a grease fire on the nuclear submarines deep fryers. And I think the stove by them looked gas fueled. I'm not 100% but I did not see an electric stove. Still, stupid kitchen all the same.
Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.
would any Captain pull a drill in conditions like that?
Not any of the CO's that I served under.
His point is true. We don't just fight the ship when everything is "Hunky Dory" But that is why we introduce chaos and confusion and unexpected situations INTO THE TRAINING. But when a real life threat pops up, and a fire is a VERY serious threat to a ship, even a surface ship... Training goes by the wayside and the REAL threat is taken care of.
I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!
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I was in a bushfire once after some nice thinking flyboys dropped smoke to mark our position for the enemy.
We all got to fighting the bushfire 'enemy' and 'friendly' alike, with the 'enemy' making profane remarks to the 'enemy' pilot more loudly than any of the 'friendlies'.
We went back to the war after the bushfire was under control.
Similar (although not as risky) as this onboard fire.
Most standing orders from above the ship's CO prohibit such activity. Squadron or Group orders almost always have something as a line item for handling emergencies or threats to life or equipment during non-wartime steaming.
You're taking a dump and they call GQ do you pinch it off or finish your business?
Also, please remember that we are talking about a movie set, not an actual submarine. I am sure you served well and with good people. And you wouldn't get me into submarine if my life depended on it. Bunks on land will do just fine, or barring that, 6 feet under THE GROUND! Thank you for your service anyway, for what ever cause, country or grievance it may have been for.
Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.