MovieChat Forums > Crimson Tide (1995) Discussion > Possibly really stupid question....

Possibly really stupid question....


But....during the inquiry, Admiral Anderson (Jason Robards) says, "And based in no small part on Capt. Ramsey's recommendations, that Lt. Comdr. Hunter be given his next command at the earliest possible convenience."

The question I have revolves around the word command. Did Admiral Anderson mean that Hunter would be promoted....or be like Bart Mancuso in Hunt for Red October, who everybody referred to as "Captain," when he clearly wore the silver oak leaf of a Commander.

That's one of the parts of the film that's always confused me.


"Has anybody ever told you you have a SERIOUS IMPULSE CONTROL PROBLEM??"

reply

It is proper terminology to refer to the Commanding Officer of a ship as Captain, regardless of rank. I've called a midshipman "Captain" before. It just depends on the circumstance.

As a Lieutenant Commander, Hunter would probably be promoted in order to assume command. Submarines are commanded by Commanders and Captains, generally. So both of your statements are true-- he would likely be promoted to Commander, and he would be given command of a submarine.

"You feel the way the boat moves? The sunlight on your skin? That’s real. Life is wonderful."

reply

Ah, okay. That makes sense, then. Thanks, michaelnewmann01. :) And I figured subs were commanded by both Commanders and Captains (which explained Mancuso in Hunt for Red October. )

"Has anybody ever told you you have a SERIOUS IMPULSE CONTROL PROBLEM??"

reply

Michael is correct in his post. If I may expand upon it...

The confusion you have here is in that there is a difference between RANK and POSITION. Captain is a Rank (O-6). but Captain can also be a position as in captain of a ship. that position can be held by other ranks as well not necessarily the Captain Rank. Attack subs, Destroyers, and such are often commanded by O-5 Commanders. but due to his position, is referred to as captain.

Despite the correctness of his answer, Michael was addressing where you stated: "or be like Bart Mancuso in Hunt for Red October, who everybody referred to as "Captain," when he clearly wore the silver oak leaf of a Commander."

That did not address your actual question where you stated:
But....during the inquiry, Admiral Anderson (Jason Robards) says, "And based in no small part on Capt. Ramsey's recommendations, that Lt. Comdr. Hunter be given his next command at the earliest possible convenience."

The question I have revolves around the word command.



In this instance, command is used to denote a self contained unit with it's own command structure with a commanding officer at the top.

Each ship is a separate command. So too is each base. Each Aircraft Squadron. Each subunit assigned to a base like a medical unit or something like SIMA (Shore Intermediate Maintenance Activity). Command can also refer to a higher command that is a grouping of smaller commands and usually headed by an Admiral or a very senior O-6 Captain acting in the capacity of a Commodore. A DESRON or Destroyer Squadron would be an example, the DESRON is a command but so too is each individual destroyer it's own command as well.

A command Ball cap are those blue Baseball style caps you see Navy enlisted wearing. Despite some idiot on another board and thread stating,"They did not appear too commanding to me..." they don't have a thing to do with commanding people or having what is called a "Command presence". They represented the Command to which the Sailor is assigned as a crewman. The Command Ballcap was emblazoned with the Name of the Ship or other Base/facility to which he belonged. The statement in question meant that Hunter was to be assigned to a a Sub and as it's Commanding Officer. As Hunter is a CDR and not a CPT, it would likely be an attack boat, not a boomer. Boomers (SSBN's like Alabama) are commanded by actual Captains, SSN's (like Dallas) are commanded quite often by Commanders. Usually one will have a command or two of SSN's before given an SSBN command. and would be made a Captain in rank by that time.


I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

reply

Here is an example of the usage of the word "Command" in the context of the Admiral's statement.

Naval Base San Diego (formerly 32nd Street Naval Station) is a command with it's own commanding officer. but there are many other "tenant commands" assigned to the base.

Major Shore commands include:
Afloat Training Group Pacific
Branch Dental
Branch Medical
Expeditionary Combat Readiness Center (ECRC)
Expeditionary Strike Group THREE (ESG-3)
Fleet and Industrial Supply Center San Diego (FISCSD)
Navy Criminal Investigative Service (NCIS)
Naval Facilities Engineering Command Southwest
Naval Legal Service Office Southwest
Naval Medical Center San Diego
Naval Sea Logistics Center
Navy Lodge
Navy Marine Corps Relief Society
Navy Mobilization Processing Site (NMPS) San Diego
San Diego Armed Services YMCA
Southwest Regional Maintenance Center
Training Support Center

Major Afloat Commands include:
USS ANTIETAM (CG 54)
USS BENFOLD (DDG 65)
USS BONHOMME RICHARD (LHD 6)
USS BOXER (LHD 4)
USS BUNKER HILL (CG 52)
USCGC BOUTWELL (WHEC 719)
BOB HOPE (TAKR 300)
USS CAPE ST GEORGE (CG 71)
USS CHAMPION (MCM 4)
USS CHANCELLORSVILLE (CG 62)
USS CHIEF (MCM 14)
USS CLEVELAND (LPD 7)
USS COMSTOCK (LSD 45)
USS CURTS (FFG 38)
SS CURTISS (TAVB 4)
USS DECATUR (DDG 73)
USS DEVASTATOR (MCM 6)
USS DEWEY (DDG 105)
USS DUBUQUE (LPD 8)
USS FREEDOM (LCS 1)
USS GARY (FFG 51)
USS GERMANTOWN (LSD 42)
USS GREEN BAY (LPD 20)
USS GRIDLEY (DDG 101)
USNS GUADALUPE (TAO 200)
USS HALSEY (DDG 97)
USS HIGGINS (DDG 76)
USS HOWARD (DDG 83)
USNS HENRY J KAISER (TAO 187)
USS INDEPENDENCE (LCS 2)
USS JARRETT (FFG 33)
USS JOHN PAUL JONES (DDG 53)
USS KIDD (DDG 100)
USS LAKE CHAMPLAIN (CG 57)
USS MAKIN ISLAND (LHD 8)
USS MCCLUSKY (FFG 41)
USS MILIUS (DDG 69)
USS MOBILE BAY (CG 53)
USNS MERCY (TAH 19)
USS NEW ORLEANS (LPD 18)
USNS NAVAJO (TATF 169)
USS PEARL HARBOR (LSD 52)
USS PELELIU (LHA 5)
USS PINCKNEY (DDG 91)
USS PIONEER (MCM 9)
USS PREBLE (DDG 88)
USS PRINCETON (CG 59)
USS RENTZ (FFG 46)
USS RUSHMORE (LSD 47)
USS SAMPSON (DDG 102)
USS SENTRY (MCM 3)
USCGC SHERMAN (WHEC-720)
USS STERETT (DDG 104)
USS STOCKDALE (DDG 106)
USS THACH (FFG 43)
USS VANDERGRIFT (FFG 48)
USS WARRIOR (MCM 10)
USS WAYNE E MEYER (DDG 108)

http://www.cnic.navy.mil/SanDiego/About/TenantCommands/index.htm

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

reply

I was not aware that SSBN's were commanded by 0-6's (actual Captains by rank.) But after I read the response prior to this one, I read the scenario as --

Hunter would be promoted to full Commander and given his own boat (an SSN).

At some point he would then be promoted to Captain, and probably given an SSBN to command.

How close am I? (Or am I *even* close?)

"Has anybody ever told you you have a SERIOUS IMPULSE CONTROL PROBLEM??"

reply

That's correct except for his "being promoted to full commander ". As I recall, Commander Hunter was already a Commander. Not a Lt. Commander

EDIT : Never rely on recall! Yes, Hunter was a Lt. Commander.

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

reply

Yeah, he was Lt. Commander....


"That Lt. Commander Hunter be given his next command...."


So, he would have to be promoted to a full Commander first. :)

"Has anybody ever told you you have a SERIOUS IMPULSE CONTROL PROBLEM??"

reply

Yup.

Oh, and to answer your sign...
Why yes! Yes I have.

I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

reply

You and me both!! That was my favorite line of Jim Carrey's in Batman Forever....and it fits me to a "T"....so I made it my sig.

"Has anybody ever told you you have a SERIOUS IMPULSE CONTROL PROBLEM??"

reply

Just a note. During the Cold War, SSBNs were usually O-6 commands. Nowadays they're back to an O-5 billet. The refitted SSGNs are now the second-tour commands for sub skippers, and I think Jimmy Carter might be as well, but I'm not sure on that.




"You feel the way the boat moves? The sunlight on your skin? That’s real. Life is wonderful."

reply

So cgsailor,

Being a genious and with all of your knowledge of everything under the sun, why didn't you make captain? Just wondering


reply

What's your malfunction?


I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

reply

Can be interpreted a few ways. Can substitute the words "given his next command" with "sent to his next command" - this would make very good sense. Can also be interpreted as given his next command as the leader of a specific unit. This may be shore based or sea based. If sea based, doubt it would be an SSN or SSBN since he was not an 0-5 (Commander). When I was in the USN, subs were skippered by 0-6's (Captains) but now 0-5 Commanders command subs as well. Since he was a submarine trained sailor he most likely would not be going to a ship and since he was an 0-4 LT Commander, he would not be given his own submarine since his rank didn't warrant that responsibility. He was either being sent to another submarine in the same position (XO, Executive Officer) or was indeed being "given" a command of his own, but most likely that would be a shore based unit.

No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn ..... JM

reply

I dunno, it sure seemed like Captain Ramsey was recommending that LCdr. Hunter be given his own Boat. Maybe that meant his promotion would be fast-tracked, or maybe he'd get frocked as a Commander, or maybe the Admiral would take Ramsey's recommendation literally and give him a Boat as an LCdr. I don't know. I'm a Marine, and while I've seen it happen where a billet was given to a Marine who was deemed qualified even though he was below the rank that would normally hold such a billet. I'm not aware of that happening so much in officer ranks, however, and not when it comes to command billets.

But isn't it true that Hunter would have to attend a Command Officer's course, become cetified as "qualified for command", and get interviewed by the Director of Naval Reactors? I understand that all that takes at least a full year. wouldn't all that give him time to pick up his silver oak leaves before he assumed command of his first Boat?

When a loose cannon flogs a dead horse, there's the Devil to pay!

reply

But isn't it true that Hunter would have to attend a Command Officer's course, become cetified as "qualified for command", and get interviewed by the Director of Naval Reactors? I understand that all that takes at least a full year.


Yes.
Which is why the admiral stated... "at the earliest possible convenience"
Meaning, after he went through all of that.




I joined the Navy to see the world, only to discover the world is 2/3 water!

reply