MovieChat Forums > Batman Forever (1995) Discussion > Is Val Kilmer to Bruce Wayne what George...

Is Val Kilmer to Bruce Wayne what George Lazenby is to James Bond?

posted 7 years ago by TMC-4 (20161)
19 replies | jump to latest

In that he inherited an iconic role (with Michael Keaton in this case, being Sean Connery) that served as their big break of sorts (unlike Lazenby, Kilmer was already known before he got the Batman role, but it just seemed like Batman for all intents and purposes, officially solidified Kilmer as an A-list player), but instead of appreciating it, he believed his own hype, and pissed away his career in the process.

https://lebeauleblog.com/?s=val+kilmer

[–] Truthtalker (1975) 7 years ago

Clooney is way worse

[–] Patman111196 (1791) 7 years ago

I agree with that. I thought Kilmer played Batman well, but wasn't the best Bruce Wayne.

[–] TMC-4 (20161) 6 years ago

I've heard the argument that Val Kilmer was probably the only Batman to actually sound intelligent as if he was the smartest person in the room. Plus, Kilmer's voice as Batman actually sounded confident and cool (kind of like Kevin Conroy's) unlike say Christian Bale's ridiculous Batman voice or Ben Affleck's modulated, robot voice. Kilmer always seemed super suave as both Batman and especially Bruce Wayne.

[–] NotoriousRio (12927) 7 years ago

Yeah Clooney was terrible, I didnt mind Kilmer at all, although he may of come too soon after Keaton.

[–] TMC-4 (20161) 6 years ago

I think George Clooney's problem is that he didn't have the intensity, gravitas or sense of pathos that Michael Keaton or Val Kilmer had. Clooney seemed too detached (like he rather be elsewhere but in the Batsuit or in the Batcave), ironic (like he's too self-aware of how silly and goofy the movie could be), too cool for school, and down right apathetic. Kilmer somehow made the chessy or corny aspects ("I'll get drive thru!", "The Batsingal is not a beeper!", "Who's your tailor!") work because I believe he was more able to play it completely straight and earnestly. Clooney at times, didn't seem to know for sure (outside of his scenes with Michael Gough) how to play the part.

[–] MickyMac (3188) 6 years ago

A lot of the cast feel like first and only choices. Clooney was unable to distinguish between Bruce Wayne and Batman, also didn't look quite right in costume especially around the eyes where Michael Keaton got the part due to his eyes.

The silly aspects of B&R would've played out better if it was played straight not trying too hard.

[–] TMC-4 (20161) 6 years ago

George Clooney himself even admitted while on the press junket for B&R that he didn't entirely understand why Bruce Wayne was still moping around over his parents' murders. Bruce Wayne is a 30 something year old guy who has access to all of the coolest toys imaginable. Basically, Clooney was insinuating that Bruce is a young guy who is fortunate to live in the lap of luxury, therefore it shouldn't be reasonable for him to be so depressed all of the time.

[–] MickyMac (3188) 7 years ago

Clooney was just doing a stock Clooney performance.

[–] TMC-4 (20161) 3 years ago

I guess that issue that people had with George Clooney is that he (I don't know how to properly explain it) just came across as way too slick and cool-acting as Bruce Wayne and Batman. It isn't like say, Tony Stark, where the whole point of his public persona is that he's a smarmy, smug prick. Bruce normally acts like his grim, stoic "Batman" persona when he's in private, but even when he's not wearing his costume. With Clooney, it just feels like there's hardly any real affectation between Bruce Wayne the public figure and Bruce Wayne, who witnessed his parents get murdered.

[–] TMC-4 (20161) 6 years ago

Ben Affleck is arguably, the Pierce Brosnan of Batman actors in that they actually have what it takes to be a great Batman/Bruce Wayne/007 (I've heard the argument that some of Brosnan's non-Bond movies like The Thomas Crown Affair, The Matador, and Tailor of Panama showed how good he could've been in a better Bond movie) but they were let down by the scripts and direction. Brosnan at the very least, can say that he made at least one genuinely good Bond movie in GoldenEye.

[–] LetThemEatCake (2717) 7 years ago

I agree.

[–] lordbishop34 (1442) 7 years ago

I would have liked to have seen Kilmer do it again at the time, but with the Burton instead of Joel Schumacher.

[–] Otter (24464) 7 years ago

I don't blame Kilmer for being unmemorable. I blame Jim Carry for running off with the film, and the writers and director Joel Schumacher for letting him. They really should have called it "Riddler Forever", because Ed Nygma is tha protagonist and Batman is reduced to the antagonist.

If Kilmer seems a bit sulky at having his role reduced from starring to supporting, he's not alone. Tommy Lee Jones looks visibly resentful in his scenes with Carrey.

[–] NotoriousRio (12927) 7 years ago

Yeah true, Carrey along with Tom Cruise and Arnold Schwarzenegger we're probably the biggest box-office draws at the time. If they had cast Julia Roberts in a 90's Batman movie she'd of hogged the screen time like Carrey did.

I didnt even like Jim Carrey much in this, nor Tommy Lee Jones as a Joker knock off. Kidman and Kilmer were the best in this movie by far.

Also Tommy Lee Jones very much disliked Jim Carrey, I don't know what he thought of the rest of the cast.

[–] MickyMac (3188) 6 years ago

One of the most fatal errors of Forever and B&R was going with some of the hottest stars at the time because they would distract audiences from the narrative and cause the film to cost more, a lot of the time it's best to go with lesser knowns or up & coming actors in the role of a superhero or villain.

[–] TMC-4 (20161) 6 years ago

You can argue that the 1989 film did that to by having Jack Nicholson be cast and get top billing ahead of Michael Keaton as the Joker. The 1978 Superman movie did that to by having Marlon Brando and Gene Hackman get top billing (even though Marlon Brando was only in the movie for roughly the first 15 minutes) ahead of Christopher Reeve, who was an unknown at the time.

[–] TMC-4 (20161) 3 years ago

Had Val not gotten sick with throat cancer, there's part of me who wished that like Michael Keaton many years later with the forthcoming Flash and Batgirl movies, that he himself could've found away to come back as Batman. I always thought that Val had more to give beyond Batman Forever and I was disappointed that things had to end so badly.

Based on what he has written on social media, it seems like Val does finally look back at his stint as Batman with fondness:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CQLzEjjNLAo/

I hope that Val (given his negative reputation throughout his career) has mellowed a great deal and realized that playing a superhero (whose entire job is the help, protect, and save hapless people) like Batman can inspire a lot of people (as corny as it may sound).

[–] DoctorThirteen (14093) a year ago

'Had Val not gotten sick with throat cancer, there's part of me who wished that like Michael Keaton many years later with the forthcoming Flash and Batgirl movies, that he himself could've found away to come back as Batman. I always thought that Val had more to give beyond Batman Forever and I was disappointed that things had to end so badly.'

I think Kilmer did a really good job as Batman. It's a shame he didn't get to do it in a more serious movie, and I would have loved it if there had been a way for him to reprise the role.

[–] TMC-4 (20161) a year ago

Also, Val seems to like George Lazenby with James Bond, to be the "forgotten" Batman. Lazenby kind of served as a brief place holder in-between or around the Sean Connery and Roger Moore eras. Val Kilmer had to immediately follow Michael Keaton's take but he doesn't seem to be talked about as much as George Clooney since Batman Forever isn't as infamous as Batman & Robin.

https://moviechat.org/nm0000174/Val-Kilmer/629ff86c88883875edbb1a72/Unpopular-opinion-he-was-a-good-BatmanBruce-Wayne

I don't even know if Batman is first brought up among the things that Val Kilmer has done in his career when compared to say, Tombstone or Top Gun.