Why is Tuvok so uninspiring or uncharismatic compared to Spock?
Well?
shareDisagree with your premise. I thought Tuvok was great and loved the episodes where he was the lead character.
shareThe simple answer is that Tuvok is so much more mature than Spock, that the Trek writers didn't know what to do with him. Really!
Spock may have been the smartest person in Starfleet and a total badass, but emotionally he was still very much an adolescent - trying to figure out how to balance emotion and reason, fighting with his parents over career plans, and struggling with the onset of hormonal urges. The geeky Trek writers could get into that mix of fantasy fulfillment and immaturity! Conversely, Tuvok was conceived as a mature, stable, unconflicted adult, someone whose family, friendships, and belief system are all free of conflict. There were no flaws or drama built into his character, and IMHO Russ never found a way to rise above the written-in limitations he had to work with and to really connect with the audience.
So the writers for "Voyager" just had Tuvok get hurt over and over again, and let us watch him suffer instead of growing or changing as a character. It was repetitive, it got old, and was a real failure on the part of the show.
What about that time he became the ever awesome Neelok or Tulix or whatever he was called.
I just wished he'd got a go on Kez in that form, that would have been fun.
I don't remember that episode offhand, but having him be interesting for one episode doesn't negate any of my arguments.
shareThere was also that hilarious pon farr episode where Tuvok eventually masturbates into a hologram of his wife.
You are not giving Tuvok the proper love his character went through Otter [no]
Just watched that one yesterday!
Mr.Dazed was impressed and very shocked also when I knew what a pon farr was.
He thinks I'm not paying attention but I am.
Did I ever tell you that in our house Seven is known as fourbeetwo?
fourbeetwo
She does have a very impressive figure.
I dunno, I'm hardcore on my Trek. I'd like to have seen her bald, chalk white (Touch of blue) and covered in utilities like Hugh from "I, Borg" in TNG or any of the individual Borg from "Descent' with Data and Lore.
She's a very sexy lady and make no mistake but she's Borg first and that's just another one of Voyager's failings (For me).
I get what you're saying.
However,I think it says a lot for the acting chops of the likes of Jeri Ryan and Brent Spiner that they are able to portray those characters without an awful
lot more than a bit of make up.
*Tuvix *Kes
shareThanks for the correction!
So, them doing it - what do you think?
The Tuvix character creeped me the fck out, to be honest. Maybe it was the part of him that was symbiogenic orchid? That's not a bad thing though! Freak in the sheets and all?
So yea, totally would have wanted to see that!
It would have made the episode even more morally difficult for Janeway, zesty for us viewers, and Kes could have gotten some (something makes me think Neelix was subpar...).
It would have made the freaky Kes episode much more resounding too (Although that's one of the Voyager episodes which really kicked ass as it already stands!).
shareYea, when Kes went freaky - I loved that!
They played a lot of episode very safe, which I understand! but they had so much potential to push boundaries.
Safe apart from Chakotay's spirit guide, the captain talking to a holographic DaVinci for real world advice, Paris' superhero complex (As well as him being a criminal), The Marquis fitting in so perfectly with the rest of the crew...etc.
share*cries* phone erased the whole message at the end.
Yes, a lot of those moments pushed boundaries.
There was also Extreme Risk with B'Elanna, I know someone I watched it with was uncomfortable.
And the Maquis rebelling and trying to overthrow command in the beginning was excellent- had they just assimilated, I would have stopped watching then and there lol
There was also Icheb and his parents breeding him for Borg, that I'm sure bothered quite a few.
Thing is, they always did it in a safe way that still allowed a family to watch and discuss the show - very wise decision in the long run!
Still, as an adult now looking back, they missed some opportunities to hit some things harder.
But then, that isn't what our beloved Trek is about, is it? :)
But then, that isn't what our beloved Trek is about, is it? :)
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The episode where Tuvok explained why Vulcans surpress their emotions really opened up the Tuvok character for me. It also did a good job expanding the Vulcan race for the Star Trek universe. I believe this was the episode
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Gravity_(episode)
As I said above, one problem is that the writers really didn't know what to do with a Star Trek character who is mature, responsible, dedicated to duty, and not fucked up.
But another factor is that Leonard Nimoy just did more with his Vulcan character than Tim Russ. Yes, Nimoy had the whole half-human thing to work with, but the fact is he managed to make Spock interesting and oddly likeable, he had a great deadpan humor, occasional pathos, and a deep capacity for love that underlay everything; in his last appearance in the role in 2009 Spock had matured into a real Bodhisattva. Tuvok, on the other hand, was played as uptight and unhappy at baseline, not someone you really wanted to get to know better.
I just read this thread and a lot of good points were made. I think having Shatner and Kelley on his wing helped immensely, and Nimoy was a veteran actor already, (as the trio all were, I believe). Plus LN was an interesting looking fellow, tall and quite thin, and his eyes always seemed a little Asian to me. Sometimes I'll see him in an old Western and I can't help but think of Spock, haha. Leonard just had a little more charisma than Tim Russ, and likely better writers and fewer other characters taking up screen time.
shareTuvok is my favorite Vulcan. He was more assertive and didn't take BS from anybody.
shareOne of my favorite Tuvok scenes:
https://youtu.be/wvbwvnpF8kw
I guess one couldn't expect every Vulcan to follow suit. Spock after all was part human and part Vulcan and probably had insights and ways of communicating that expressed Vulcan intellect quite vividly to his human colleagues. Leonard Nimoy himself had a unique interpretation that he brought to the character that brought depth and meaning to it.
Another reason may be that the writers wanted to look into the Borg further and create a new "rational alien" in the form of 7 of 9 that was to become a close friend of the Captain character on the ship. This was a fresh idea and one in which they could involve the character expressing emotions somewhat freely even though it was from a dispassionate personality.
So even though the Vulcans are a notable culture and they always seem to contribute admirably to Starfleet in whatever capacity, they seem to be treated as secondary characters in the writing of the show.